Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Big Magilla » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:41 am

Sometimes it takes a year.

Despite my support of Dev Patel last year, not only is his performance the one I least remember, but finally having seen A Bigger Splash, Patel is the one I would eliminate to make room for Fiennes.

My top five in order now: Bridges, Fiennes, Ali, Hedges, Shannon.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Reza » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:29 am

dws1982 wrote:After seeing Lion, I kind of lean towards Dev Patel in this category. It's an outwardly emotional role, it's a very sympathetic character, it's a popular Best Picture nominee that doesn't seem to have much shot elsewhere, plus, it's a lead role, easily the most dominant of the five nominated here.


Actually Lion also has a pretty good shot at winning in the cinematography category.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:06 am

Big Magilla wrote:because they are really good.


This is, of course, subjective. I can sort-of understand Viola Davis winning - though I hate her movie and I think that, while not a bad actress, she basically just plays uplifting roles in a cliched way. But let's face it - she's much-respected in the US, the role is a showy one, she's been twice nominated before, the competition isn't too strong, and Fences is a high-profile movie from a high-profile literary source. So, ok, it can't NOT happen.

But in Best Supporting Actor there'd clearly be other valuable options.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Big Magilla » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:55 am

The white guilt thing among the Academy membership is overstated.

It reached its zenith with the 2001 awards when Denzel Washington won his second Oscar and Halle Berry became the first black actress to win a lead Oscar. If Washington wins again this year over Casey Affleck it will be overkill.

There will be two persons of color winning, not because of white guilt, but because they are really good.

Either Dev Patel or Mahershala Ali will win supporting actor. If Jeff Bridges hadn't won for the inferior Crazy Heart seven years ago, it would be a three-way race, but it isn't. If there is an upset in supporting actress, which is doubtful, it is more likely to be Naomie Harris than Michelle Williams. Williams is good, but Harris' performance is a revelation.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:34 am

Mister Tee wrote: Could Lucas Hedges be running a similar track without anyone noticing?


Probably not. If I know America well - and thanks to this board I feel that I do - this year there won't be just a non-white winner in the Acting categories. They need, and want - desperately, even - at least two. So that means Viola Davis and either Denzel Washington or (most probably) one between Ali and Patel. I know, it's sad - but this is what happens when fake social consciousness - and the internet world - get into an event which in theory should only have to do with talent.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Precious Doll » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:20 am

Something I should have mentioned earlier is that whilst I don't think Dev Patel performance is anything out of the ordinary his Australian accent is spot on. Most actors flounder badly with Australian accents (likewise New Zealand & South African ones) but Patel nailed it perfectly. I was absolutely gobsmacked at what I was hearing. The only other actors who I can recall pulling it at the same level were Kate Winslet (twice - in the mediocre Holy Smoke & The Dressmaker) and Meryl Streep in Evil Angels.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby dws1982 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:38 pm

After seeing Lion, I kind of lean towards Dev Patel in this category. It's an outwardly emotional role, it's a very sympathetic character, it's a popular Best Picture nominee that doesn't seem to have much shot elsewhere, plus, it's a lead role, easily the most dominant of the five nominated here.

I wonder if voters who caught up on Moonlight after Ali won so many awards will come away wondering what the big deal was, especially since he has no big Oscar scenes and disappears about forty minutes into the film. Sheer momentum goes a long way, and actors win on it in plenty of cases, but voters looking for alternatives have some here. Because in addition to Patel, I could see a scenario where Bridges and Hedges (my two favorites) both pull off a surprise. Shannon is out, thankfully.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Big Magilla » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:06 am

flipp525 wrote:This category does seem like the only one that offers even a whiff of a chance of a surprise. Hedges might benefit from the nebulousness of the race and become the youngest winner in this category (since Timothy Hutton in Ordinary People or ever?).


He would be the youngest, having just turned twenty in December. Hutton was several months older, his birthday having been in August.

Aside from the similarity in their roles, both Hutton and Hedges are second generation actors who hung around on their father's films and, in fact, made their film debuts as kids in their father's films. Hutton in 1965's Never Too Late in which his father Jim co-starred, and Hedges in 2007's Dan in Real Life which his father Peter directed.

The difference is that Jim Hutton died at 45 in 1979 just before Tim Hutton was cast in Ordinary People. Actor-writer-director Peter Hedges is still very much alive at 54. The author of What's Eating Gilbert Grape and Oscar nominee for co-writing the screenplay for About a Boy hasn't made a film since 2012's The Odd Life of Timothy Green.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby criddic3 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:06 pm

flipp525 wrote: And this Dev Patel business kind of seems like "buzz of the week" to me rather than a late-in-the-game surge.


While Ali is undoubtedly in the best position to win here, Moonlight may very well win screenplay, so some voters may decide this is where to honor Lion, a movie they seem to like a lot. So I think it is possible for Patel to win.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby flipp525 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:16 pm

Tee, I had a similar thought about a Lucas Hedges spoiler in this race (just the other day, in fact). He seems to be sort of quietly sitting in the background of this category with not a lot of speculation about his chances on UAADB or elsewhere.

It's every bit conceivable, too, that people mark him down on the ballot alongside Casey Affleck, with the idea that they are a "two-hander" in Manchester by the Sea. They really work well off each other, anchoring the film in that relationship. The Anna Paquin comparison is actually even more apt given its similar symbiotic quality (as Paquin being the interpreter of Hunter's character throughout the film).

There doesn't seem a compelling enough narrative to give it to Michael Shannon for another random (although Waltz's win for Django Unchained would provide precedent for the performance that wasn't expected from a certain film but ended up winning the whole thing). Mahershala Ali is obviously not as strong as a front-runner in this category after all. I think Jeff Bridges is just here for the ride. And this Dev Patel business kind of seems like "buzz of the week" to me rather than a late-in-the-game surge.

This category does seem like the only one that offers even a whiff of a chance of a surprise. Hedges might benefit from the nebulousness of the race and become the youngest winner in this category (since Timothy Hutton in Ordinary People or ever?).
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:54 pm

Mister Tee wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:some actors I know, who generally have sentimental taste (and hate, for example, Carol) are crazy about Moonlight,



Yes, Moonlight certainly can't be compared to Carol - or (as some Italian critics have done) to Blue is the Warmest Colour. It's definitely less edgy and more sentimental (and less brutally frank, even). I have some problems with this movie - yet at the same time I found it poetic at times, and, of course, the protracted final meeting between the two main characters is VERY beautifully executed.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby nightwingnova » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:53 pm

I found Ali's to be the most unique supporting character. Could we have seen more of the grittier side of the character's life? Sure. In the end, I still find it the most fleshed out, believable and complex of the supporting performances.


Mister Tee wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:
Sonic Youth wrote:[My problem was the conception of the character, which was far too idealized, an update of the cliched "hooker with a heart of gold" role. I could really sense the effort of making this drug dealer palatable to (white) audiences.


Yes, this is true. And in a way it says something about the movie itself - which IS good, don't get me wrong, and ends on a quite touching note, but still... feels a bit like a compromise, from too many points of view - structurally, narratively, and I'd say even thematically.


I think a number of us have remarked that the film, until the last act, covers, in narrative terms, rather familiar material. Uri even goes so far as to suggest these early segments echo Dickens, which I think is an interesting point -- and may explain why some actors I know, who generally have sentimental taste (and hate, for example, Carol) are crazy about Moonlight, despite its arty aspects. The irony, of course, is the film's most likely win is for screenplay, maybe its least distinguished aspect.

As for this category:

I think Mahershala Ali's narrative shifted over time. When the film opened, many noted that there were other praiseworthy supporting actors in the cast, but that Ali's dominance in the first half hour would probably make him the most singled-out. I don't think any of us expected him to run the critical table the way J.K. Simmons or Christoph Waltz did. Once that happened, though, and when the Broadcasters chimed in, making him their prediction, the deal was done...

...or so it seemed, till Ali went and lost two of the three TV awards that followed (holding onto the most significant one, but still...). Aaron-Taylor Johnson, by virtue of not getting an Oscar nod, was no threat (as Idris Elba wasn't, last year), but Dev Patel winning at SAG makes one wonder if this category is so cut and dried.

I know we live in an era when a win at one of those TV venues is considered sine qua non for an Oscar win (I'd have to look up the last actor/actress to challenge that stat), but let me just throw in: about two decades back, there was a young person's performance that everyone rated very highly but no one thought had a chance at winning; her film was going to be limited to lead performance and maybe screenplay. But Anna Paquin won, to the shock of all. Could Lucas Hedges be running a similar track without anyone noticing?

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Mister Tee » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:05 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
Sonic Youth wrote:[My problem was the conception of the character, which was far too idealized, an update of the cliched "hooker with a heart of gold" role. I could really sense the effort of making this drug dealer palatable to (white) audiences.


Yes, this is true. And in a way it says something about the movie itself - which IS good, don't get me wrong, and ends on a quite touching note, but still... feels a bit like a compromise, from too many points of view - structurally, narratively, and I'd say even thematically.


I think a number of us have remarked that the film, until the last act, covers, in narrative terms, rather familiar material. Uri even goes so far as to suggest these early segments echo Dickens, which I think is an interesting point -- and may explain why some actors I know, who generally have sentimental taste (and hate, for example, Carol) are crazy about Moonlight, despite its arty aspects. The irony, of course, is the film's most likely win is for screenplay, maybe its least distinguished aspect.

As for this category:

I think Mahershala Ali's narrative shifted over time. When the film opened, many noted that there were other praiseworthy supporting actors in the cast, but that Ali's dominance in the first half hour would probably make him the most singled-out. I don't think any of us expected him to run the critical table the way J.K. Simmons or Christoph Waltz did. Once that happened, though, and when the Broadcasters chimed in, making him their prediction, the deal was done...

...or so it seemed, till Ali went and lost two of the three TV awards that followed (holding onto the most significant one, but still...). Aaron-Taylor Johnson, by virtue of not getting an Oscar nod, was no threat (as Idris Elba wasn't, last year), but Dev Patel winning at SAG makes one wonder if this category is so cut and dried.

I know we live in an era when a win at one of those TV venues is considered sine qua non for an Oscar win (I'd have to look up the last actor/actress to challenge that stat), but let me just throw in: about two decades back, there was a young person's performance that everyone rated very highly but no one thought had a chance at winning; her film was going to be limited to lead performance and maybe screenplay. But Anna Paquin won, to the shock of all. Could Lucas Hedges be running a similar track without anyone noticing?

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:03 am

Sonic Youth wrote:[My problem was the conception of the character, which was far too idealized, an update of the cliched "hooker with a heart of gold" role. I could really sense the effort of making this drug dealer palatable to (white) audiences.


Yes, this is true. And in a way it says something about the movie itself - which IS good, don't get me wrong, and ends on a quite touching note, but still... feels a bit like a compromise, from too many points of view - structurally, narratively, and I'd say even thematically.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Supporting Actor

Postby Sonic Youth » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:09 pm

Precious Doll wrote:To be honest I have never heard of Mahershala Ali before the Moonlight acclaim and when watching the film I had know idea who he played.


This made me smile. I watched Moonlight the night before the New York Film Critic's Circle Awards were announced. When I heard Mahershala Ali won Best Supporting Actor, I was very pleased... until I realized exactly which role he played. Like Italiano, I thought Andre Holland gave the stellar performance.

But I won't be unhappy if Ali wins. He was also very good. My problem was the conception of the character, which was far too idealized, an update of the cliched "hooker with a heart of gold" role. I could really sense the effort of making this drug dealer palatable to (white) audiences. But, for the purposes of what the film was trying to achieve, Ali was perfect for the role.
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