2017 Oscar Nominations

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Franz Ferdinand » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:53 pm

HarryGoldfarb wrote:- At first I read "Agnes Varda Jr"... "a daughter?" I asked myself... Then I checked it and found out "JR" is (according to Wikipedia) "a French photographer and artist whose identity is unconfirmed". So, we have a nominee with no known identity. How cool/weird is that?


There was the case in 2010 of Banksy officially nominated for Best Documentary - a person some believe to be 3D (aka. Robert Del Naja) from Massive Attack.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby HarryGoldfarb » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:40 pm

First random thoughts:
- I, like almost everyone else, was shocked by McDonagh's failure to achieve the BD nod. At first I thought TBBOE,M was automatically doomed and this had became an open road for TSOW to be declared at once BP, but this was my mind, so accostumed to the old days, playing tricks on me. Things have really changed, not only because of the BP expansion but also considering the ever increasing voting members: more diversity, younger voters. Having not seen both Get Out and Lady Bird, I can not judge for sure but they seem like films that really benefit from this new type of voters. Even Phantom Thread may be the product of this. Gone are the years in which we could use Driving Miss Daisy as the exception to the rule but recently Argo managed to accomplish the BP victory without a corresponding directing nomination. TSOW failure to receive a nomination for Best Cast at SAG still represents an ominous fact (this proved to be fatal for "sure things" like BBM and last year La la land). And since the expansion, being the most nominated film not only is far from a guarantee to win, but it actually might work against the film that pulls this achievment. Guess we have to wait not only for the DGA award (if McDonagh manages to win, will we be at some "Argo year"?). All in all, TBOE.M is still pretty much alive in my mind.
- TSOW is the 10th film to receive 13 nominations. From the previous 9, 5 won BP, 4 failed to make it (Mary Poppins, Who´s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button).
- The Independent Spirit Award has correctly predicted BP 5 out of the last 6 years... however, neither TSOW nor TBOE,M are nominated. Are Lady Bird's chances bigger that I am thinking right now? Or this just means that the Independent Spirit Award are not predicting BP this year...?
- At first I read "Agnes Varda Jr"... "a daughter?" I asked myself... Then I checked it and found out "JR" is (according to Wikipedia) "a French photographer and artist whose identity is unconfirmed". So, we have a nominee with no known identity. How cool/weird is that?
- Call Me by Your Name seems a film deserving of more nods. Cinematography and Directing wouldn't had been undeserving. Thought Hammer was going to make it through despite the uneven path (the antecedent I was using was Gladiator, with both Reed and Phoenix receiving significant buzz but the younger actor with the juiciest/longer role receiving the nod; however, I forgot to check that Phoenix, unlike Hammer, was actually nominated for GG and BAFTA).
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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Mister Tee » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:19 pm

Years ago -- after the 1969 Oscars -- a young lady friend of mine wrote me "I never agree with them on everything, but there were things I was very happy about." Since, that night, Dustin Hoffman lost to John Wayne, and Catherine Burns to Goldie Hawn, but at the same time Midnight Cowboy won best picture/director and Maggie Smith won best actress, I was in full agreement with her. I came to think of that as how I'd almost always feel about the Oscars, with my comparative level of contentment based on how the scale tilted.

This year, though as always there were personal disappointments, I think the scale tilted VERY positive. My five most-liked movies of the year are all nominated for best picture (and my 6th, Blade Runner, scored a healthy five tech nods). One of them -- Phantom Thread -- was one many thought had no chance, but it killed (to answer Sabin's question, "Who predicted this?", I actually predicted everything it got plus screenplay -- and I think okri was in the ballpark, too). With all that on the positive end, I can live with The Post scrounging up two nods, and Darkest Hour fouling the nest with a chanceless best picture nomination.

Plus, as we all know, I have a personal bugaboo about things being entirely predictable. I hate when the professional predictors brush aside your long shot by saying "It didn't get the important precursors", and I love when they're all wrong. (As so many of them were about PTA.) It wasn't a completely WTF morning, but there was enough divergence from the template that I was able to enjoy the uncertainty, even when it resulted in an omission or inclusion I wouldn't have made.

Did anyone else tune into Good Morning America expecting to see the early tech nods, and then frantically have to go to the computer for the live-steam? I thus came in late on the first category (production design), though I was able to get a quick glance at the full board, enough to see it was mostly the expected candidates. This held true for most of the design categories: cinematography repeated ASC, and costumes were within normal range (the costume guild be damned, I knew they'd never pass up Victoria & Abdul). There were minor surprises within this first batch: Get Out missing editing; sound mixing and sound editing absolutely matching, I believe for the first time?; I, Tonya slipping into editing (surprising mostly because it then failed under best picture); Carter Burwell getting noted for Three Billboards (as was said below, Three Billboards seemed to be doing above expectations, until director came along). Oh, and thank you, visual effects branch, for not forcing me to sit through another Alien movie. Having to watch Kong: Skull Island is a small price to pay for that.

The time for discussing winners is later, but I'll say at the top I think at least half of these below-the-line categories will be competitive.

Then it was on the televised portion. I think Haddish amped up the cute a bit more for this segment -- and, really, she didn't even seem to try to get names right. How complicated is the name Weber? (To his good-sport credit, writer Weber tweeted out that she could mispronounce his name any time she wanted.)

Right off the bat, there was the happy jolt of Manville's nomination -- one I was wobbly on all the way, but which came though. I'd have preferred Hong Chau be a fifth nominee, rather than Blige, but, again, you can't have everything.

Biggest disappointment of the day, of course, was Stuhlbarg's omission. I'm going to say the insistence on running Armie Hammer in the same category was fatal to both. Three Billboards was able to break the quarter-century jinx against double nominees, but Call Me by Your Name didn't have the overall strength to do the same, and it cost both. Stuhlbarg is in three best picture nominees, but got nothing for himself (except, as Mark Harris says, the satisfaction of the fact he belonged on the list and we all know it). If you gave me the power to alter just one nomination, I'd remove Plummer and insert Stuhlbarg, without hesitation.

I presume Twitter will claim James Franco's potential nomination was lost due to misbehavior, but, as I've said, I think his vehicle was enough to bring him down on its own. As for his replacement -- is Roman J. Israel about as lame an 8th nomination vehicle as we'll ever see? Maybe Venus/O'Toole was close? (For the record, Meryl's 8th was A Cry in the Dark; Jack's was Prizzi's Honor.)

Perhaps not enough noticed: we ended up with four African-American acting nominations, only one short of last year when there was a lot more hoopla. Especially noteworthy is the fact that not one of them was a sure thing. Also: Octavia Spencer ties Viola Davis for nominations by an African-American woman -- the small number (3) is likely to grow for one or both in the coming years.

The Stuhlbarg omission made it that much more gratifying that Mystery of Love was able to crack the best song list. The roster is not nearly so obscure as usual -- we all guessed on the unknown documentary the one year it didn't happen -- and, apart from the unavoidable Diane Warren effort, it's not a disreputable bunch. I assume people view Remember Me as the favorite, but the fact that voters will need to watch Call Me by Your Name for its major categories might give Mystery of Love a shot.

The fact that The Big Sick still managed to get a screenplay nod, despite failing at film and supporting actress, convinces me I was right early on this season, when I said there were so many deserving candidates, things might not fit together as neatly as they normally do. Also the fact that Phantom Thread missed here, despite doing so well elsewhere.

The screenplay categories thus only accounted for 5 of the 9 best picture nominees -- I believe a record for this expanded field era.

And James Ivory becomes, I'm told, the oldest person ever nominated for an Oscar -- an Oscar we all hope he'll win. Chrisropher Plummer is merely the oldest ever in his category.

And maybe this is the spot to note, something I picked up from Mark Harris: thanks to the breakthrough in cinematography, and the rare directing citation, there are women competing in almost every category -- apart from, of course, actor and supporting actor, plus score, and the tech boys categories of visual effects and sound mixing (but sound editing, amazingly, includes a female nominee).

Conversely, I, Tonya's failure to get a best picture nod means we won't have the expected match-up of all lead actress nominees to a best picture nominee. Oddly, just as many of the lead actors (4) match to a best picture candidate...which feels like a misleading statistic, given how the female-led films seem to dominate the roster.

When Peele and Gerwig were read out as directing nominees, I was ready to say, damn, everybody was right to go DGA -- and then Anderson's name came gloriously along. I should be unhappy that McDonagh was the victim, given it might sabotage his film's ultimate hopes, but 1) I thought of his film as more a writing than directing achievement; 2) I was SO happy Phantom Thread got this richly deserved nod; and 3) I'm delighted once again the directors' branch maintains its ability to surprise in a good way. Also, I was relieved we didn't have to go through the Twitter wars if either Peele or Gerwig were the missing.

Sabin is correct, by the way: it's amazing that Nolan finally got off his long-running schneid, and it's barely rating mention.

As was mentioned below, both documentary and foreign film categories were missing the candidates that seemed to have the potential to run away with it, making them complete wild cards. You also have to get a kick out of the fact that Ostlund, having failed to get a nod a few years back when it was expected, now succeeds when most had written him off.

Finally, best picture, which I've kind of discussed already. The Post ends up with exactly the same nominations as (drum roll) The Blind Side; not exactly what Spielberg & Co. envisioned, I'd guess. There were enough Brits to get Darkest Hour onto the list. Other than that, it was the DGA five plus Call Me by Your Name, and, did I mention, Phantom Thread got nominated! That last is my biggest takeaway of the day, and makes this a happy day despite all disappointments.

And with that exhaustively said, I'll cut this off, and get back to what others are saying.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby MaxWilder » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:39 pm

Reza wrote:Which is kind of sad considering Nolan is far better a director and certainly more deserving of the nomination than either Peele or Gerwig.

Dunkirk was his 10th film, he gets blank checks for budgets, he works in entirely different genres. This is not a useful exercise.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Reza » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:19 pm

Sabin wrote:
Reza wrote
Which is kind of sad considering Nolan is far better a director and certainly more deserving of the nomination than either Peele or Gerwig.

I don’t think I’ll ever disagree more with anything you could ever say.


We aren't dead yet....hopefully you'll get many more chances to do just that :)

I just don't get the adulation for both Lady Bird and Get Out. They were both good films but there was nothing remarkable about either.

There....I just gave you yet another thing to disagree with :)

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Sabin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:11 pm

Reza wrote
Which is kind of sad considering Nolan is far better a director and certainly more deserving of the nomination than either Peele or Gerwig.

I don’t think I’ll ever disagree more with anything you could ever say.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Reza » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:09 pm

Sabin wrote:
MaxWilder wrote
I'm not getting the sarcasm (blame sleep deprivation). I think casual observers will be surprised that it's his first nom as director. It wasn't even guaranteed, given the newer and hipper competition.

Christopher Nolan getting nominated for Best Director after his multiple "snubs" would be the news of the day any other year. Now, it's barely a blip. People are talking about Greta Gerwig and Jordan Peele.


Which is kind of sad considering Nolan is far better a director and certainly more deserving of the nomination than either Peele or Gerwig.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Sabin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:05 pm

One of my biggest takeaways from this Oscar season...look to the BAFTAs for clues. Not answers, but clues. In retrospect, they were clearing up some mysteries about the race. I dismissed 'Darkest Hour''s showing there as Brits honoring their own. Not so. Christopher Plummer's Best Supporting Actor nomination should have made it clear to a group that clearly saw 'Call Me By Your Name' that he was a contender. And it's pretty clear that like with 'Django Unchained,' SAG voters didn't have a chance to see 'Phantom Thread' but BAFTA voters did. Oscar voters likely put Holly Hunter and Hong Chau near the bottom of their ballots, but those who saw Lesley Manville had her near the top.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Franz Ferdinand » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:44 pm

Sabin wrote:Christopher Nolan getting nominated for Best Director after his multiple "snubs" would be the news of the day any other year. Now, it's barely a blip. People are talking about Greta Gerwig and Jordan Peele.


And Martin McDonagh getting snubbed is second-biggest news. How pleasant that even when he wins, Nolan can't win :P

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby MaxWilder » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:36 pm

Sabin wrote:Christopher Nolan getting nominated for Best Director after his multiple "snubs" would be the news of the day any other year. Now, it's barely a blip. People are talking about Greta Gerwig and Jordan Peele.

Ah, OK. Good point. P.S. Come on, not even Inception? :(

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby anonymous1980 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:12 pm

I'd like to point out presumed front-runners in their respective categories: In the Fade for Foreign-Language Film, Jane in Documentary Feature and In a Heartbeat in Animated Short were all left out.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Sabin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:05 pm

Uri wrote
There are actually three - Blige is in too.

Oops.

MaxWilder wrote
I'm not getting the sarcasm (blame sleep deprivation). I think casual observers will be surprised that it's his first nom as director. It wasn't even guaranteed, given the newer and hipper competition.

Christopher Nolan getting nominated for Best Director after his multiple "snubs" would be the news of the day any other year. Now, it's barely a blip. People are talking about Greta Gerwig and Jordan Peele.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Uri » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:44 am

Sabin wrote: and two mothers (Metcalf and Janney) were enough.


There are actually three - Blige is in too.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby MaxWilder » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:39 am

Sabin wrote:"BIG NEWS! CHRISTOPHER NOLAN NOMINATED FOR BEST DIRECTOR!" is the headline of zero hot takes.

I'm not getting the sarcasm (blame sleep deprivation). I think casual observers will be surprised that it's his first nom as director. It wasn't even guaranteed, given the newer and hipper competition.

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Re: 2017 Oscar Nominations

Postby Sabin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:28 am

"BIG NEWS! CHRISTOPHER NOLAN NOMINATED FOR BEST DIRECTOR!" is the headline of zero hot takes.

So, 'The Shape of Water' can't win because it isn't nominated for the SAG award but now it's the only movie that can...

MY FAVORITE SURPRISES:
-- 'Three Billboards...' nominated for Best Original Score. Carter Burwell has quietly been doing incredible work for decades and he's finally getting noticed. His score for 'Three Billboards...' is so instrumental in making the film work.
-- If I can't have 'The Florida Project,' I'll take 'Phantom Thread.' Who in their right mind would predict six nominations? Picture, Director, Actor, Original Score, Costume, and especially Supporting Actress are all very deserving.
-- 'The Big Sick' for Best Original Screenplay. Because, y'know, they're a couple. That's cute. Also, it's a very charming romantic comedy.
-- No documentary songs nominated.
-- 'Dunkirk' and 'The Shape of Water' missed out on VFX nominations, which means this branch actually judges these things on quality.
-- And 'Logan' for Best Adapted Screenplay. Mainly, because I was right. 'Logan' breaks the anti-superhero movie curse. All it took was complete abdication from the category.

LEAST FAVORITE NOMINATIONS
-- 'Darkest Hour' for Best Picture.
-- 'Dunkirk' for Production Design. That was some beach. Did the production designer run out of thousands of soldiers?
-- 'The Shape of Water' for Best Film Editing and Best Original Screenplay. It's a nice movie that I'd prefer not win. However, it is poorly paced.
-- I would say Mary J. Blige for 'Mudbound' but I've yet to see 'Downsizing' and I honestly don't think Holly Hunter is that great in 'The Big Sick.' I don't think Blige is given much of an opportunity to be that great in 'Mudbound' but I got Lesley Manville so I'm happy.


It's hard to know what to make of 'Three Billboards...' Its nomination for Best Original Score and Editing means it's being noticed for the right things. And we can't forget that it still has three acting nominations...which is just as many as 'The Shape of Water.'

'Three Billboards...' can certainly still win, but it doesn't seem as much of a sure thing as it did Sunday night. It also makes the race for Best Original Screenplay *seem* tighter as well. Officially, the smartest money you can bet in your Oscar pool is 'Three Billboards...' for Best Original Screenplay while the noobs pick Jordan Peele or Greta Gerwig.

I also honestly wonder if 'Lady Bird' still has a shot. Try as I might, I just can't fathom that one movie is going to get 51% on the first ballot. But maybe the recount will still favor 'Three Billboards...' or 'The Shape of Water.'

I originally had Lesley Manville in but chickened out. Clearly, not enough people saw or liked 'Downisizing' and two mothers (Metcalf and Janney) were enough.

Christopher Plummer is nominated for a movie he wasn't in three months ago.

Sound Mixing & Editing match up for the first time in ?. Copycats.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver


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