Call Me By Your Name reviews

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby Uri » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 pm

... And this notion is also apparent by the fact that a gay couple must have a humorous, almost derogatory, heterosexual nickname.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby Uri » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:17 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
The Original BJ wrote:
I’m not saying the romance between Oliver and Elio couldn’t happen today — of course it could. As everyone as said, there’s no accounting for what people find attractive in a partner. I do think that, in 2018, the odds are significantly higher that Oliver would have another Oliver back at home to whom he is engaged, or have a phone app to have his pick of local summer flings in Italy while abroad, than they would be in the mid-80s. This is not in any way to suggest that Oliver views Elio as slim pickings, just that his romantic life would likely be pretty different today than in the era the movie is set, and so the circumstances in which Oliver and Elio form their relationship would be quite different as well.


Oh you meant this. I thought it was about a handsome guy like Oliver picking a cute but definitely not hunky teenager like Elio.

Sorry then - you are right. Today it would be completely different (and this is why I wrote that I found myself missing those days while I was watching the movie). It could still happen, of course - guys do meet and have short-lived but vivid affairs, and couples like Oliver and Elio aren't that unusual - but many aspects would be different today, and probably less emotionally intense.


It's 1983, and it's still "the love that dare not speak its name" - which the title of this film is a kind of a reference to. There's a seemingly frank conversation between the three male characters about the possibility of Elio having sex with a girl (which is very obviously a coded one), but same sex/love is never explicitly discussed - the celebrated late monologue by the father is all about not using any concrete terms. And even the notion of calling your lover by your name - yes, it's about intimacy, about becoming "one" - but it's also about turning the act of sex/love between two men (this exchange of names is not applyable to heterosexual couple, it seems) into something which is too intimate, almost masturbatory, therefore able not to be named for what it really is.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby OscarGuy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:43 pm

In the 1980s, especially in the United States, finding gay relationships was an incredible challenge, especially if you did not live in a major metropolitan area. People were still being beaten and killed for being gay, especially in rural areas. And in Europe, where the climate was slightly more accepting, but nowhere near as open as it would be today, finding a kindred soul would be a surprising development. I think in that respect, Call Me by Your Name would not have the same tone or edge of tension that it would set today.

First of all, youngsters are exposed to and open to others who are like them. It's no longer a dangerous challenge to seek out someone who is also gay. Thereby, I don't think someone of Elio's age would be as concerned about being true to himself, especially growing up in any kind of Academic environment like the one his father works in. Oliver, also being part of Academia, would also be exposed to plenty of opportunities for exploration and commitment and finding a kindred spirit would be far less likely. He would not feel the need to explore himself in the same way Oliver does in this film nor would Elio. They would be wholly different experiences in a film set today than they would in a film set in the early 1980s as this one is.

I suspect Guadagnino will dig deeper into the perils of having to be secretly gay in the mid-to-late 1980s when he follows this film up with the second part of his planned trilogy. I suspect that one of the two may either have been exposed to or may be dealing with AIDS themselves, or at least trying to navigate this type of relationship in an era and an environment where the plague is hitting hard. Again, this is the kind of story that cannot be told in a 2018 setting.
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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:57 pm

The Original BJ wrote:
I’m not saying the romance between Oliver and Elio couldn’t happen today — of course it could. As everyone as said, there’s no accounting for what people find attractive in a partner. I do think that, in 2018, the odds are significantly higher that Oliver would have another Oliver back at home to whom he is engaged, or have a phone app to have his pick of local summer flings in Italy while abroad, than they would be in the mid-80s. This is not in any way to suggest that Oliver views Elio as slim pickings, just that his romantic life would likely be pretty different today than in the era the movie is set, and so the circumstances in which Oliver and Elio form their relationship would be quite different as well.


Oh you meant this. I thought it was about a handsome guy like Oliver picking a cute but definitely not hunky teenager like Elio.

Sorry then - you are right. Today it would be completely different (and this is why I wrote that I found myself missing those days while I was watching the movie). It could still happen, of course - guys do meet and have short-lived but vivid affairs, and couples like Oliver and Elio aren't that unusual - but many aspects would be different today, and probably less emotionally intense.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:48 pm

Sabin wrote:
Italiano wrote
And - but I repeat that I won't reply to the absurdities - often you DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW MUCH about the object of your love. Living that moment was the essence. Today's teenagers are certainly more comfortable than we were - society (at least in the Western world) and the web are there to support them

Now this is a good point. One of the few criticisms I have with 'Call Me By Your Name' is that we never get to know much about Oliver. Far more importantly, Elio never seems interested in knowing anything about Oliver. I still think he would want to know something but this is the best reasoning I've heard in its defense.


We were hugry for love and - admittedly - for sex. And as both weren't that easy to get (love isn't too easy even today, but for sex you just have to look on the web), we ate them up when we found them. There was also, I believe, a fear of knowing too much about the other. But really, it's mostly about intensity.
I'm sure that, if Oliver hadn't left after a few days, the two would had talked more about themselves, and asked more questions. But they didn't have much time. Plus, they may not have got the answers they expected or hoped for.
I'd say that it's a quite believable portrayal of a brief relationship.
Last edited by ITALIANO on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby The Original BJ » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:42 pm

ITALIANO wrote:Seriously, Original BJ, I might sound rude but sometimes I feel like I live in a parallel universe. I always read and appreciate your reviews (though sometimes I wonder if we saw the same movie). But I just can't underatand why the relationship in this movie couldn't happen today. In Americam movies, maybe - but why not in real life? Guess I will never know... :)


Since this is at least a more civil way to have a discussion with someone, I will engage with your question.

I’m not saying the romance between Oliver and Elio couldn’t happen today — of course it could. As everyone as said, there’s no accounting for what people find attractive in a partner. I do think that, in 2018, the odds are significantly higher that Oliver would have another Oliver back at home to whom he is engaged, or have a phone app to have his pick of local summer flings in Italy while abroad, than they would be in the mid-80s. This is not in any way to suggest that Oliver views Elio as slim pickings, just that his romantic life would likely be pretty different today than in the era the movie is set, and so the circumstances in which Oliver and Elio form their relationship would be quite different as well.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm

CalWilliam wrote:
Precious Doll wrote:
CalWilliam wrote:
I always like reading whatever you have to say about anything, and I’m glad your overall view of the film is good. Could you mention some of other those “summer of discoveries” titles? Not the obvious ones, of course, but some more obscure films that are worth discovering or mean something to you. You know, I’m a 25 young gay man, and my response to this film has been very emotional. I’m also a European, so it’s always very exhilarating for me to read your balanced and clear-headed points of view, which I share and understand.


Whilst not a 'summer of discoveries" Andre Techine's Being 17 (2016) is highly recommended - deals with a number of contemporary issues. Great story telling, beautifully acted by the cast and with a great sense of place. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4331970/reference

Tomboy (2011) first film by Celine Sciamma (who also wrote Being 17) the characters in this French gem are much younger, and girls but it's absolutely lovely http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1847731/reference

Another Andre Techine film, one of his very best from 1993 Les Roseau Savage (Wild Reeds). Was hugely successful back in it's day and given it's setting, France early 1963's, also very political. Simply hypnotic http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111019/reference

I'm sure Marco and others will have more titles to contribute. If anymore come to mind I'll post them.


Thank you, Precious Doll. I’ve seen these three and they’re definitely good, though they didn’t resonate as deeply as Call Me by Your Name to me.



Most of such movies have, of course, a heterosexual content - starting with Bergman's Summer with Monika and many other Scandinavian efforts.

Another good one - also heterosexual - is Sergei Solovyov's Wild Pidgeon, which years ago was picked by Russia as their entry for the Foreign Film Oscar (it wasn't nominated). It's not actually summer here, but early-to-late autumn, but still the portrayal of a teenager growing up in a poor town with his widowed father, and learning about how cruel life can be (mainly witnessing the sad fate of an ageing actress) is both realistic and moving.

There's also a movie which is considered a classic here in Italy and which, while much dated, could be interesting: Franco Brusati's To Forget Venice, which many years ago WAS nominated for the Best Foreign Film Oscars. It's about a brother and a sister, both gay and both with a younger partner, who meet again in the summer house where their old aunt is dying. It's a chance of confronting their lives now with the way they were back when they were teenagers - in that same house. The tone is melancholic, but at the same time, by the end, optimistic (quite unusual if you consider that the movie, a big hit at the time here, was made in the 70s). It's naive but also definitely sincere.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:35 pm

Uri wrote:
Marco has no mercy, not even for poor invalids...



Publicly, I may have no mercy, but privately, I have sent you a private message earlier today...

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:34 pm

The Original BJ wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:
The Original BJ wrote:(Were this movie taking place in 2017, obviously certain elements would be different, but I'd honestly find it a lot less believable that a guy like Oliver would fall for Elio at all.)



Why..? :D

I don't have time to reply to any single absurdity which this thread is full of. You guys should get a life soon :) Just let me say that of course Precious Doll is right - each of us is attracted to different types, and while I personally wouldn't be interested in either Elio AND OLIVER, I accept and understand that one can find attractive a slim - but by the way not ugly - 17-year-old person. That's the beauty of life - just accept it, or you will really miss alot. I don't see why today such a relationship would be impossible... In America, maybe, where political correctness has killed any spontaneity. You need a holiday, Original BJ - or you simply watch too many movies. Come to Europe :wink: (As for Uri's complicated explanation of Oliver's attraction to Elio, it must be read to be believed).


Can you ever just disagree with anyone around here without making it some kind of holier-than-thou insult against that person's very being?

Actually, I did go on a holiday recently, and it was to Europe, and every single person I met there seemed a hell of a lot nicer and more thoughtful and less self-absorbed than you.



Yeah, I know, I am a bad guy and Americans are so sensitive... :D

By the way it's true that most Europeans are much better than I am. This is what I meant when I invited you to Europe. Meeting me would be a shock, trust me :wink:

Seriously, Original BJ, I might sound rude but sometimes I feel like I live in a parallel universe. I always read and appreciate your reviews (though sometimes I wonder if we saw the same movie). But I just can't underatand why the relationship in this movie couldn't happen today. In Americam movies, maybe - but why not in real life? Guess I will never know... :)

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby CalWilliam » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:31 pm

Uri wrote:Another very non-American film for you, CalWilliam, is Katherine Brieiiat's A ma soeur!, or Fat Girl. Think about an R, or rather X rated version of the two French sisters from CMBYN.


Thank you, Uri, I’ll try to find it.
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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby Sabin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:23 pm

Italiano wrote
And - but I repeat that I won't reply to the absurdities - often you DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW MUCH about the object of your love. Living that moment was the essence. Today's teenagers are certainly more comfortable than we were - society (at least in the Western world) and the web are there to support them

Now this is a good point. One of the few criticisms I have with 'Call Me By Your Name' is that we never get to know much about Oliver. Far more importantly, Elio never seems interested in knowing anything about Oliver. I still think he would want to know something but this is the best reasoning I've heard in its defense.
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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby Uri » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:12 pm

Another very non-American film for you, CalWilliam, is Katherine Brieiiat's A ma soeur!, or Fat Girl. Think about an R, or rather X rated version of the two French sisters from CMBYN.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby Uri » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:01 pm

The Original BJ wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:
The Original BJ wrote:(Were this movie taking place in 2017, obviously certain elements would be different, but I'd honestly find it a lot less believable that a guy like Oliver would fall for Elio at all.)



Why..? :D

I don't have time to reply to any single absurdity which this thread is full of. You guys should get a life soon :) Just let me say that of course Precious Doll is right - each of us is attracted to different types, and while I personally wouldn't be interested in either Elio AND OLIVER, I accept and understand that one can find attractive a slim - but by the way not ugly - 17-year-old person. That's the beauty of life - just accept it, or you will really miss alot. I don't see why today such a relationship would be impossible... In America, maybe, where political correctness has killed any spontaneity. You need a holiday, Original BJ - or you simply watch too many movies. Come to Europe :wink: (As for Uri's complicated explanation of Oliver's attraction to Elio, it must be read to be believed).


Can you ever just disagree with anyone around here without making it some kind of holier-than-thou insult against that person's very being?

Actually, I did go on a holiday recently, and it was to Europe, and every single person I met there seemed a hell of a lot nicer and more thoughtful and less self-absorbed than you.


Marco has no mercy, not even for poor invalids...

And while we're at it, Marco, what's your take on the Jewish aspect of this film?

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby The Original BJ » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:42 am

ITALIANO wrote:
The Original BJ wrote:(Were this movie taking place in 2017, obviously certain elements would be different, but I'd honestly find it a lot less believable that a guy like Oliver would fall for Elio at all.)



Why..? :D

I don't have time to reply to any single absurdity which this thread is full of. You guys should get a life soon :) Just let me say that of course Precious Doll is right - each of us is attracted to different types, and while I personally wouldn't be interested in either Elio AND OLIVER, I accept and understand that one can find attractive a slim - but by the way not ugly - 17-year-old person. That's the beauty of life - just accept it, or you will really miss alot. I don't see why today such a relationship would be impossible... In America, maybe, where political correctness has killed any spontaneity. You need a holiday, Original BJ - or you simply watch too many movies. Come to Europe :wink: (As for Uri's complicated explanation of Oliver's attraction to Elio, it must be read to be believed).


Can you ever just disagree with anyone around here without making it some kind of holier-than-thou insult against that person's very being?

Actually, I did go on a holiday recently, and it was to Europe, and every single person I met there seemed a hell of a lot nicer and more thoughtful and less self-absorbed than you.

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Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews

Postby CalWilliam » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 am

Precious Doll wrote:
CalWilliam wrote:
I always like reading whatever you have to say about anything, and I’m glad your overall view of the film is good. Could you mention some of other those “summer of discoveries” titles? Not the obvious ones, of course, but some more obscure films that are worth discovering or mean something to you. You know, I’m a 25 young gay man, and my response to this film has been very emotional. I’m also a European, so it’s always very exhilarating for me to read your balanced and clear-headed points of view, which I share and understand.


Whilst not a 'summer of discoveries" Andre Techine's Being 17 (2016) is highly recommended - deals with a number of contemporary issues. Great story telling, beautifully acted by the cast and with a great sense of place. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4331970/reference

Tomboy (2011) first film by Celine Sciamma (who also wrote Being 17) the characters in this French gem are much younger, and girls but it's absolutely lovely http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1847731/reference

Another Andre Techine film, one of his very best from 1993 Les Roseau Savage (Wild Reeds). Was hugely successful back in it's day and given it's setting, France early 1963's, also very political. Simply hypnotic http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111019/reference

I'm sure Marco and others will have more titles to contribute. If anymore come to mind I'll post them.


Thank you, Precious Doll. I’ve seen these three and they’re definitely good, though they didn’t resonate as deeply as Call Me by Your Name to me.
"Rage, rage against the dying of the light". - Dylan Thomas


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