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Big Magilla
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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Big Magilla » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:14 pm

At first I thought this was an Onion article, but it isn't.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/12/29/ ... ience.html
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” - Voltaire

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby The Original BJ » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:24 pm

Greg wrote:Here's some comic relief.

Trump Touts Apprentice Ratings, Tells Prayer Breakfast: 'Pray For Arnold':

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/02/513052930 ... for-arnold


Nothing this cretin does is either comical or a relief.

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Greg » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:54 pm

Here's some comic relief.

Trump Touts Apprentice Ratings, Tells Prayer Breakfast: 'Pray For Arnold':

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/02/513052930 ... for-arnold
"Wall Street is not the solution to our problem. Wall Street is the problem!"

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:57 am

“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” - Voltaire

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Greg » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:44 pm

Trump fires acting AG after she declines to defend travel ban:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/ ... index.html
"Wall Street is not the solution to our problem. Wall Street is the problem!"

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby ITALIANO » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:00 pm

OscarGuy wrote:It's just amazing how like Trump Italiano is.


:D

So there's a bit of Trump in me, too! Well, maybe, who knows... After all I am a man of these times.

Don't be too sensitive, Oscar Guy, please. I'm sorry if you felt offended but I really didn't mean to attack you - and even less your very good work on this board. And of course anyone can ignore me - including you. But maybe, if you get to the root of what I try to say, you will realize that it's not so strange nor so tough. And you know what? It's not even anti- American. Un-American maybe. But there is a world outside America, Oscar Guy. And even Trump won't be able to block it out.

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Heksagon » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:12 am

I hope you don't plan to quit the whole board because of this thread :(

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby OscarGuy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:30 am

It's just amazing how like Trump Italiano is. Narcissistic. Believes in alternative facts. Claims opinions are fact and facts are opinion. Demeans and attacks anyone who doesn't agree with him. Claims to be the only one who sees the truth. Refuses to acknowledge when he might be wrong. He's a Nationalist (or at least Regionalist). As much as he claims the rest of us are like Trump, he exudes those qualities more so than any one of the rest of us. We have our faults, but you can always count on Italiano to take the same precise tack to every issue. If you don't agree with him, he'll single you out for scorn, or belittling, and never treat you any less reprehensibly in the future. You can ignore him and his opinion, but he will continue to try to insinuate himself into every conversation to make it about himself and his opinions and no one else's. If we were all being rounded up into concentration camps, he'd be doing nothing but saying "I told you so" and complaining that we deserved our lot.

Ain't no one got time for that. Like Trump, I recommend that each of us put him on ignore so that he will have nothing but his loving cheering section to keep him company. What a lonely world it would be for him.

Every day I see the lack of participation on the board and wonder why I keep it open. I keep it open for people like Tee and Sonic and Sabin and Magilla and the myriad others who treat each other with respect. I don't participate much anymore for this very reason. I get tired of being attacked. I apparently can never say anything right and will be ruthlessly attacked for it. You want to know why I haven't participated, here's precisely why you haven't. I don't have the time, the patience, or the desire to be in that kind of environment anymore.

I could claim that it was because I was busy, but honestly. Who wants to be some place where you are mistreated and attacked at regular intervals. A place where if you dare say something contradictory, you're pilloried for your opinions. I get enough of that shit on Facebook. There, at least, you can block it out. I'm not going to tolerate it in my own home. And that's what this place used to be. I no longer see it that way. Best of luck to you all. Magilla can handle moderation duties just fine. If you want to talk to me or discuss movies with me, there's Facebook. You can also private message me on FB or here. I may still drop in, but I have no desire to continue taking an unnecessary, unwarranted, and demeaning beating every time I share an opinion. I apologize to everyone whom I ever did that to. For the last few years I've understood precisely how you felt about that and it was never something I intended. So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby ITALIANO » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:17 am

Mister Tee wrote:
OscarGuy wrote: It was rather a small number. His margin of loss was less than 1,000,000 among those states combined (I don't recall the exact numbers).

Actually, WAY less: 10,704 votes in MI, 22, 748 in WI, and 44, 292 in PA -- a total of 77,744 votes spread over three states counted more than Hillary's margin of 2,868,520.


Mamma mia. This is exactly the way of thinking that I find hopelessly American - this, and thinking that my main point was about the size of the protests, while of course there was so much more. But it's clearly easy to talk about numbers (the way a bank clerk would do during a big economical crisus which is clearly about more than numbers). And even easier to see the enemy everywhere - except in ourselves. This is exactly the way Donand Trump would react to my very reasonable thoughts. Superficially.

So I will be more explicit. I have to. I will be accused once again of being rude, anti-American, etc - but if you guys didn't get my point till now, ok, I will be clear. I think (I am actually sure) that there's alot of Donald Trump in Mister Tee. A LOT. (He's certainly closer to Donald Trump than to Italiano - and I should know, as I AM Italiano). There's alot of Donald Trump in Sonic Youth. And so on. Oh, there's obviously even more than alot of Donald Trump in Oscar Guy!!! I mean, really, just read some of his posts from even just a few years ago - his approach and even some of the words he used against me were exactly the same the Donald Trump uses today. Exactly the same (I might even find some of those posts). Ignoring this would be a big mistake - and a mistake that Americans today conveniently make. But ignoring thinngs rarely solves problems. It actually makes them worse.

Being on this board has helped me to understand America, and for this I must thank you all. Maybe this is why I'm not so surprised now. But you LIVE there, and you read books, you see movies... Can't you understand that it's not enough NOT TO VOTE FOR TRUMP to be innocent? Can't you see that you are part of a certain system, and that for example NOT to demonstrate against death penalty or going in the streets to celebrate the killing of a terrorist IS being part of that system? It's easier, I know - but problematic thinking, while difficult and not for the lazy, is the only way of changing things. I've done that all my life. Why canìt you? Only because unlike me you don't study philosophy at school? No, I don't thinh it's just that.

I'm not saying this to complain about the past, believe me - I couldn't care less. Try to understand what I mean please. A mature country should stop trying to find scapegoats. A mature country should analyze itself, its inner contradictions, its more subtle problems - problems which by the way didnt start a few months ago with Trump's elections, but years, maybe decades ago (education, as others have pointed out here, is one of them for sure). The very fact that you can't do that (and that, once again, the enemy is Italiano plus a few farmers from North Carolina) shows how close to Trump, deep inside, you actually are - and that there will be even more Trumps in America's future. Which, sadly, is also the world's future.

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Mister Tee » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:30 am

OscarGuy wrote: It was rather a small number. His margin of loss was less than 1,000,000 among those states combined (I don't recall the exact numbers).

Actually, WAY less: 10,704 votes in MI, 22, 748 in WI, and 44, 292 in PA -- a total of 77,744 votes spread over three states counted more than Hillary's margin of 2,868,520.

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Sabin » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:23 am

Mister Tee wrote
As someone on Facebook posted "First they came for the Muslims -- and this time we said no, and stopped it".

I like that one. Another was "-- not this time, motherfucker." I'm more in line with a sign that said "Don't blame Trump. He gave us every reason in the world not to vote for him." I gain more satisfaction from Tee's note about the current protest numbers in comparison to those in the 1960s than the protests in general. I participated in Los Angeles. I will do so again and again. So far the only satisfaction I've been able to glean from it is the knowledge that these protests drive him crazy.

I've deactivated my Facebook account. My echo chamber is too like-minded so I basically lose nothing from people parroting the same articles and thoughts back and forth. I've also limited the days where I follow the news or think about President Trump (and I will say his name because he is forever a part of our American story) to five because I believe that thinking about President Trump everyday is unhealthy. Not just emotionally but physically unhealthy. I used to go weeks and months without that man crossing my mind. I fear that will never happen again.

And so, I get my news from my trusted internet sources, I partake in a much smaller echo chamber, which makes me much happier, and I also have this place which has taken on a new meaning for me since the election. I am truly grateful for the level-headed, informed perspectives I receive here. But I'm interested in those who have more varied echo chambers than I do, those with Trump supporters in their lives. How are they reacting to these appointments, to these protests, to the longest political week of my life? I will happily admit to having no idea.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Sonic Youth » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:42 am

Mister Tee wrote:I'm going to back up flipp, and say that dismissing these demonstrations as a small group of people is wildly off the mark. I lived through the 60s, and I've never seen resistance on this massive a scale. The marches last Saturday -- in mostly very cold weather -- drew somewhere from 3.5 to 4.5 million, an unprecedented turnout. The spontaneous demonstrations over the past 48 hours have been, in their own way, more impressive: incredible numbers of people mobilizing on what seems a moment's notice. As someone on Facebook posted "First they came for the Muslims -- and this time we said no, and stopped it". I don't see why we need to judge ourselves/find ourselves wanting against some hypothetical larger turnout of Europeans.


We both know how large the demonstrations were, but I see no upside in arguing with Italiano or anyone else. They're not the enemy. T***p (I never say his name), Putin, Wilders, Le Pen etc. are the enemies. If someone legitimately thinks that the protests weren't very large, they're not likely to be convinced otherwise. There are other things to focus on right now.
"What the hell?"
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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby OscarGuy » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:45 pm

Many of us, especially in the gay community, have been very well aware of the negative elements in our nation. Those who would demean, degrade, and destroy those of various LGBT stripes simply because their religion told them to. It was disturbing to see and we fought tooth and nail for the better part of four decades against that zealotry. We still saw those forces at work as they worked away in the "red" states and chipped away at our liberties. It was only through the courts that we got the redress of our grievances and eventually gained some measure of equal treatment under the law (some measure because we still have a long way to go, with these bathroom bills and First Amendment Defense bills).

Many of us have seen these things as being possibilities and is one of the reasons why we spent months last year decrying and protesting against the possibilities of a Trump administration. Unfortunately, some felt that misinformation about one candidate outweighed their fear of the other. Ultimately, it's the shitheels in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and North Carolina who decided to stay home rather than vote to protect the nation that caused this. It was rather a small number. His margin of loss was less than 1,000,000 among those states combined (I don't recall the exact numbers).

Many of us have seen the dark underbelly of this nation for years and have spoken openly about it. We just had hoped that enough people, the overwhelming majority of Americans, would stand up and stop that very vocal, very evil minority from gaining control. Those are the ones to blame for all of this. Recalcitrance, laziness and disbelief that it could happen, not evil, were the reasons we're in this situation. Let's not confuse the two.

I just hope that we still have freedom in 2 years and can get the public motivated enough to wrest control of congress from Trumple Thinskin and thereby thwart everything he has not yet been able to accomplish and, if the Republican cowards in congress haven't done their duty yet, impeach the bastard for the various crimes against humanity he has perpetrated or will perpetrate.
Wesley Lovell

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby Mister Tee » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:33 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:I'What we questioned was his belief that these were the true heart of -- the REAL -- America. That's their own self-image, but it's not reality -- not even today.


Ok, still defending America... So Trump was elected by extra-terrestrials.

Try reading my second paragraph. If you're going to ignore facts, we have no basis for discussion.

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Re: Life Under Trump

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:24 pm

Mister Tee wrote:I'What we questioned was his belief that these were the true heart of -- the REAL -- America. That's their own self-image, but it's not reality -- not even today.


Ok, still defending America... So Trump was elected by extra-terrestrials.

As for those European countries which "acceded to fascism quickly"... Well, not all THAT quickly, and not all without many trying to oppose to it, often losing their lives, and none without suffering huge damages because of fascism. But at least we learned from that experience - no President here would have the same kind of power that Trump seems to have in the US.

But then I never said that Europe - or even less, Italy - is perfect. Self-criticism is a discipline I've learned to master, trust me. But too often here saying that America isn't flawless was considered like a sacrilege, something unheard of. And your post confirms this. Why doesn't anyone ever say: "we are just idiots"?! In Italy we say this every single day... It helps, believe me.


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