Web of Sex Scandals

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby dws1982 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:47 am

Big Magilla wrote:
criddic3 wrote:Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people.


What did Clinton do that wasn't known twenty years ago? I may be a little fuzzy on the facts, but as I recall, his relationships with those women were consensual.

When you consider the vast power differential that was at play in the relationship he had with those women, I think it becomes really tough to argue that those relationships could've been consensual.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:04 am

OscarGuy wrote:Huffington says that the pics that surfaced were for a comedy sketch and that she felt in no way harassed or assaulted by them.

Yes, but they do show a propensity for that kind of behavior, which though not damning, do show a pattern that makes these allegations more credible, though again nothing to demand his resignation for - so far, anyway.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:32 am

Huffington says that the pics that surfaced were for a comedy sketch and that she felt in no way harassed or assaulted by them.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:07 am

criddic3 wrote:Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people.


What did Clinton do that wasn't known twenty years ago? I may be a little fuzzy on the facts, but as I recall, his relationships with those women were consensual. He was neither a predator nor a child molester. The damnable thing about the whole mess was the cover-up. It's a shame that despite all his accomplishments, the quote most of us remember from his days in the White House is "I did not have sex with that woman."

criddic3 wrote:On the other hand, we now have people rushing to Al Franken and Roy Moore's defense based on ideological grounds.


I don't find any evidence of people defending Franken on ideological grounds. No one is saying what he did in the first reported incident was excusable, but it hardly rises to the level of what Moore or Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey or Charlie Rose did. I found the second reported Franken incident silly, but then those old pictures of him grabbing Ariana Huffington surfaced, making me wonder if he really didn't grab that woman by the butt on purpose. Still, it's nothing compared to what those other men did, and in some instances (Weinstein, Spacey) were still doing when the reports surfaced.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:57 am

OscarGuy wrote:Attractive people generally don't have to solicit sex or force others into sex.


Another clichè. Really, I don't know how some here get their ideas about this subject, because they seem so unrelated to real life. Anyway, in Italy now the "man-of-the-day", accused by several would-be actresses of having sexually harassed them, is Fausto Brizzi, one of our most popular producers/directors, is (and, especially, was at the time those acts supposedly happened) a rather handsome man.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby criddic3 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:05 pm

Big Magilla wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:The Charlie Rose allegations -- like the Weinstein ones, and the Jeremy Piven ones -- are really serious, and seemingly broadly enough backed to merit presumption of likely guilt. But they just underscore what weak sauce the Franken accusations are. Yet there are lefties who are ready to toss Al over the side in the name of high purity (much like they once were ready to jettison Shirley Sherrod -- remember her?). They also seem to want to -- I don't know -- designate Bill Clinton an official Bad Guy (for actions that took place before many of them were even following politics)?

It brings to mind the old joke, A liberal is someone so open-minded he refuses to take his own side in an argument.


Exactly. I had to change the channel on Mika Brzezinski this morning. I don't know if I'll ever watch Morning Joe again.

She went a tirade in support of Kirstin Gillibrand this morning that included her oft given rant that Hillary needs to go away, that Bill Clinton is still making money when he should have been run out of the White House when all those women came forward in the 90s. She had a fit over Trump's tweet that Hillary should run again in 2020, not because Trump was being an asshole (as usual) but because she couldn't take another Hillary run.



Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people. I still do believe that context matters and that everyone is entitled to a defense, especially if they really are innocent or if the offense is being blown out of proportion. Yet I think it makes sense that this is happening. When the floodgates opened we saw every kind of allegation, some serious and some less so, that were all a set up for career destruction. On the other hand, we now have people rushing to Al Franken and Roy Moore's defense based on ideological grounds. Trump basically went out in front of the cameras to say Alabamans should vote for Moore so Republicans could hold the seat. I find that kind of mentality to be short-sighted and dismissive of the issues involved here. People are becoming confused and frustrated by the constant news about celebrities and politicians, some of whom have been admired in their fields for a long time. There is good and bad about all of this coming to light, but without clarity about all the facts it's becoming a free-for-all.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby OscarGuy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:29 pm

Attractive people generally don't have to solicit sex or force others into sex. It's the despicable ones who do. I'd guess that Beatty, as much of a dick I've heard he is, probably had plenty of women throwing themselves at him.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Greg » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Sabin, even with everything so far, it will still be far from everybody. You need to consider Kathleen Turner's line from Prizzi's Honor, "Well, it's not many when you consider the size of the population."

The one person I'm surprised has not been implicated so far is Warren Beatty. Perhaps, he had a very high sex drive and had sex with a lot of women; but, did not have a desire to exert his power by making unwanted advances and only had sex with the many women who wanted to have sex with him.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Sabin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Who had John Lasseter?

Oh that's right. Nobody. It's really gonna be everyone, isn't it?
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Sonic Youth wrote:

I'm overwhelmed by all the hot takes here.


Always avoiding the main points, right, Sonic Youth? But of course vilifying people is easier...

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Sonic Youth » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:14 am

ITALIANO wrote:
Sonic Youth wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:
As I've said before, there's a witch hunt going on that will take the innocent with the guilty.


But is it a witch hunt if it takes the guilty? The meaning of the phrase, I thought, was for something that's a massive and complete fabrication. Not a single person accused in the Salem Witch Hunts was an actual witch.


Maybe because witches don't exist...?


I'm overwhelmed by all the hot takes here.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:37 am

Sonic Youth wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:
As I've said before, there's a witch hunt going on that will take the innocent with the guilty.


But is it a witch hunt if it takes the guilty? The meaning of the phrase, I thought, was for something that's a massive and complete fabrication. Not a single person accused in the Salem Witch Hunts was an actual witch.


Maybe because witches don't exist...?

The idea that if it takes the guilty along with the innocent then it must have some raison d'etre is a grotesque one. This isn't The Scarlet Letter anymore - this is An American Tragedy. In more ways than one.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Precious Doll » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:36 am

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... ds-1059752

Nate Parker cannot be compared to Casey Affleck. The difference of the allegations are worlds apart.

Three major points for me are that:

1) Nate Parker made a crappy film that deserved to die critically and commercially based solely on it's own 'merits' or in this case lack of;

2) Casey Affleck's Oscar win was well earned. It's actually high on my list of most deserved Oscar wins (ditto Roman Polanski's director award for The Pianist);

3) And that is what the Oscar's should be about: awarding the best of the year, which they usually don't get right. Not based on personal actions from the past. They are not running for political office!
"I have no interest in all of that. I find that all tabloid stupidity" Woody Allen, The Guardian, 2014, in response to his adopted daughter's allegations.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Sonic Youth » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:02 pm

Mister Tee wrote:The Charlie Rose allegations -- like the Weinstein ones, and the Jeremy Piven ones -- are really serious, and seemingly broadly enough backed to merit presumption of likely guilt. But they just underscore what weak sauce the Franken accusations are. Yet there are lefties who are ready to toss Al over the side in the name of high purity (much like they once were ready to jettison Shirley Sherrod -- remember her?)


As long as there are politicians like John Conyers, Al is safe.

If you're going to be accused of groping, make sure it happens in the morning. Chances are, by the end of the day you'll look more like William Jennings Bryan.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Big Magilla » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:23 pm

Mister Tee wrote:The Charlie Rose allegations -- like the Weinstein ones, and the Jeremy Piven ones -- are really serious, and seemingly broadly enough backed to merit presumption of likely guilt. But they just underscore what weak sauce the Franken accusations are. Yet there are lefties who are ready to toss Al over the side in the name of high purity (much like they once were ready to jettison Shirley Sherrod -- remember her?). They also seem to want to -- I don't know -- designate Bill Clinton an official Bad Guy (for actions that took place before many of them were even following politics)?

It brings to mind the old joke, A liberal is someone so open-minded he refuses to take his own side in an argument.


Exactly. I had to change the channel on Mika Brzezinski this morning. I don't know if I'll ever watch Morning Joe again.

She went a tirade in support of Kirstin Gillibrand this morning that included her oft given rant that Hillary needs to go away, that Bill Clinton is still making money when he should have been run out of the White House when all those women came forward in the 90s. She had a fit over Trump's tweet that Hillary should run again in 2020, not because Trump was being an asshole (as usual) but because she couldn't take another Hillary run.
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” - Voltaire


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