US Diplomats Killed In Libya

User avatar
taki15
Temp
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:29 am

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby taki15 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:11 pm

ITALIANO wrote:I tend to fear psycopaths...


Then you must have an awfully hard time living with yourself.

User avatar
criddic3
Tenured
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:08 pm
Location: New York, USA
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby criddic3 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:14 am

This squabbling is irritating. I know I've gotten into a few heated discussions on here before, but I don't remember ever getting so personal (though, I admit I could have selective memory on that.)

Here is a major series of events that could provoke interesting opinions, and a silly fight breaks out in the thread. I actually thought my recent post was one of my better opinions (there may be some dissenting view about that :) ). Oh, well. As Jack Nicholson said in Mars Attacks!: "Can't we all just ... get along?"
"If you can't stand the nut on the left and you can't stand the nut on the right, go for the Johnson,” Jonathan S. Bush (10/21/2016)

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3980
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:59 am

taki15 wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:
Find someone else to be obsessed with, Tacky. In REAL life, if you have a real life.


Projecting much?



Of course not and here is the proof: I never comment on your posts, unless of course they are directed at me. I couldn't care less about your opinions - the few times I tried to understand your ideas I found them so confused and banal that I soon gave up (confused and banal is the worst combination, clearly - confused and profound would at least be challenging). But you keep commenting on my posts, as if devoured by a bottomless frustration and anger. Don't get me wrong, Tacky, you ARE an interesting case, but I'm glad that we are quite distant - I tend to fear psycopaths...

User avatar
taki15
Temp
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:29 am

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby taki15 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:40 am

ITALIANO wrote:
taki15 wrote:
OscarGuy wrote: Let's keep things civil .


Well, that would be a first for Italiano.



Find someone else to be obsessed with, Tacky. In REAL life, if you have a real life.


Projecting much?

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3980
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:04 am

taki15 wrote:
OscarGuy wrote: Let's keep things civil .


Well, that would be a first for Italiano.



Find someone else to be obsessed with, Tacky. In REAL life, if you have a real life.

User avatar
taki15
Temp
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:29 am

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby taki15 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:33 pm

OscarGuy wrote: Let's keep things civil .


Well, that would be a first for Italiano.

User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 12546
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby OscarGuy » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:34 pm

Can we please knock all this off. You're all sounding like children. Let's keep things civil and return to topics of interest to us all.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3980
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby ITALIANO » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:43 pm

bizarre wrote:
ITALIANO wrote: Trust me, I know much more than you ever will about not only the Arab world - about anything.


The more you say things like this the more convinced I am that you know far less about anything than most people here



For once, you are completely right. I know far less about anything than most people here - I'll say even more: far less than anyone here, actually, except Tacky and you, Bizarre, whose posts show - personal opinion, of course - that you don't understand anything about movies. I'm sorry to say this, and I hope you haven't devoted too much time in your life to movies because, honestly (but someone has to tell you this) it was wasted time. You aren't stupid maybe - but why movies? Try, I don't know, horses.

bizarre
Assistant
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:35 am

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby bizarre » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:38 pm

ITALIANO wrote: Trust me, I know much more than you ever will about not only the Arab world - about anything.


The more you say things like this the more convinced I am that you know far less about anything than most people here and are desperately terrified of being found out.

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3980
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby ITALIANO » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:58 pm

taki15 wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:It IS actually very sad. But... how shall I put it... weren't people here (and I'm not talking about Criddic this time, but about the so-called leftists) and more generally in America partying and celebrating all the night because Bin Laden had been killed and finally the nightmare was over? And laughing at me (I'm sure that that thread is still available here) when I tried to humbly imply that not only being happy for the killing of a man, of any man, is barbaric and worthy of a barbaric society, but also - on a more practical, more cynical side - that it would have been more intelligent to catch him alive and that his death wasn't the end of anything..?


This is one of the most idiotic and ill-informed posts I've ever read on this board.
Do you have any idea what triggered these riots? What the people of these countries actually thought about bin Laden and Al Qaeda? What Al Qaeda's leadership thinks of the Arab Spring?

Not to mention of course you equating the killing of a terrorist with that of diplomats. That was pretty low even for you.

Oh, and by the way, you implying something "humbly" is an oxymoron.



Tacky, Tacky... Trust me, I know much more than you ever will about not only the Arab world - about anything. So stop insulting - it won't make you seem more intelligent. Because you simply aren't, and honestly I am now smiling at the amount of frustration and anger you show in your posts (why don't you ever write about movies by the way?). You are a triumph of mediocrity, and I pity you.

I never equated anything - it didn't even cross my mind, for the simple reason, Tacky, that I never equate human lives nor deaths. I never make comparisons of this kind because, I guess, I find that unthinkable. Now that you make me think of that - well, yes, I believe that killing someone is ALWAYS wrong. But my point was that CELEBRATING anyone's killing, even a terrorist's, is inhuman and barbaric.

Now go back to the shadow you belong to.

User avatar
criddic3
Tenured
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:08 pm
Location: New York, USA
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby criddic3 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:06 pm

I agree that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has handled her duties with regard to these terrible incidents with dignity. I also disagree with the premise, however, that this act was equivalent to Christians, etc. There is some evidence that seems to show that these assassinations were planned ahead of time, that there was some warning that violence was about to erupt and that little attention was paid to this. I also think the reasons for the attack are somewhat muddled. Sure, the attackers have used an anti-Islamic video as their excuse, but there is reason to believe that that video wasn't really the spark and that the anniversary of 9/11 was being used symbolically to attack our embassies.

Still, let's assume that the attacks were directly triggered by this obscure video. As the Secretary suggests, we cannot stand by and have people attacked every time someone somewhere in the world utters a word against Allah. You do not see Christians or Jews, or anyone else killing people at the very mention of Allah or God that is not in line with their teachings. The Israel-Palestinian conflict is largely over land and power, so it's not the same kind of situation even though one would like to see the other wiped off the Earth. But I want to stay focused here. One of the reasons Mitt Romney (and one might add Secretary Clinton) condemned the original statement out of the Cairo embassy was that it was designed to head-off the violence that soon erupted. This is a fundamentally flawed approach to foreign policy. We didn't prepare our embassies for coming violence, because if we had much of what happened ...wouldn't have. It also raises many questions about how we, as a country, are dealing with the mentality of seemingly increasing numbers of Islamic faith-based believers. We say that most Muslims and supporters of Islam are moderate, peaceful people who aren't violent. But we keep seeing this radical behavior from that part of the world. Now, one could lay the blame at America's feet and say that somehow we offended these people. Yet it seems that what offends them is our very existence. Much as the Iranian regime despises the existence of Israel, these radical Islamists despise our presence on this planet. And it leads one to wonder if there is even anything that could be done about it. President Obama has attempted to build his Middle East policy around diplomacy, but almost four years into his tenure it doesn't seem to be working. Surely we can't keep telling these people that we'll be patient, waiting for a time when they'll come around to see that differing voices shouldn't always be seen as a threat to their way of life.

Since this happened on the anniversary of 9/11, and evidence is coming to light that shows this played a major role, it is important to reassess what our official policy should be. The president hasn't exactly gotten off to a good start by questioning the meaning of the word 'ally.'
"If you can't stand the nut on the left and you can't stand the nut on the right, go for the Johnson,” Jonathan S. Bush (10/21/2016)

User avatar
taki15
Temp
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:29 am

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby taki15 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:49 am

ITALIANO wrote:It IS actually very sad. But... how shall I put it... weren't people here (and I'm not talking about Criddic this time, but about the so-called leftists) and more generally in America partying and celebrating all the night because Bin Laden had been killed and finally the nightmare was over? And laughing at me (I'm sure that that thread is still available here) when I tried to humbly imply that not only being happy for the killing of a man, of any man, is barbaric and worthy of a barbaric society, but also - on a more practical, more cynical side - that it would have been more intelligent to catch him alive and that his death wasn't the end of anything..?


This is one of the most idiotic and ill-informed posts I've ever read on this board.
Do you have any idea what triggered these riots? What the people of these countries actually thought about bin Laden and Al Qaeda? What Al Qaeda's leadership thinks of the Arab Spring?

Not to mention of course you equating the killing of a terrorist with that of diplomats. That was pretty low even for you.

Oh, and by the way, you implying something "humbly" is an oxymoron.

Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 15731
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby Big Magilla » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:32 am

Secretary Clinton's Speech:

Secretary Clinton delivered a powerful and personal speech about religion at an Eid ul-Fitr reception, marking the end of the Muslim holiday of Ramadan. The speech, at times, was a direct response to the attacks on U.S. diplomatic missions in the Middle East, and the deaths of four diplomats at the hands of militants in Libya.

In her remarks, Clinton repeated much of what she's said in the last two days. Namely that the Benghazi attack was carried out by a "small and savage group," and that the United States completely rejects what she called the "inflammable and despicable" anti-Muslim film circulating the Internet. However, Clinton pointed out all religions have faced insults and denigration, but that's no justification for violence. The response to such insults is what separates people of true faith from those who would use religion as an excuse to commit violent acts, she said.

"When Christians are subject to insults to their faith, and that certainly happens, we expect them not to resort to violence. When Hindus or Buddhists are subjected to insults to their faiths, and that also certainly happens, we expect them not to resort to violence," said Clinton. "The same goes for all faiths, including Islam."

She spoke movingly about her own personal beliefs as a way of re-enforcing her point.

"I so strongly believe that the great religions of the world are stronger than any insults. They have withstood offense for centuries," said Clinton."Refraining from violence, then, is not a sign of weakness in one's faith; it is absolutely the opposite, a sign that one's faith is unshakable."

She asked the crowd to work towards building a world where if one person commits a violent religious act, millions of people will stand up and condemn it

"We can pledge that whenever one person speaks out in ignorance and bigotry, ten voices will answer," Clinton said forcefully. "They will answer resoundingly against the offense and the insult; answering ignorance with enlightenment; answering hatred with understanding; answering darkness with light."

The secretary urged the audience not to be discouraged by the hatred and violence that exists, but instead resolve to do something tangible to promote religious tolerance in their own communities.

"In times like these, it can be easy to despair that some differences are irreconcilable, some mountains too steep to climb; we will therefore never reach the level of understanding and peacefulness that we seek, and which I believe the great religions of the world call us to pursue," she reflected. "But that's not what I believe, and I don't think it's what you believe… Part of what makes our country so special is we keep trying. We keep working. We keep investing in our future," she said.

This year's annual Eid event honored three young Muslim-Americans who are part of the State Department's Generation Change program. The initiative, launched by Clinton two years ago, supports young Muslims to develop positive organizations and movements around the world.

Clinton acknowledged given deaths of the diplomats killed in Libya this week, the event had a more somber tone than in years past. But she also highlighted the outpouring of support the United States has received from the Muslim world. She thanked the Libyan Ambassador, Ali Suleiman Aujali, who gave a heartfelt tribute U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens ,whom he called his dear friend, killed in Benghazi on Tuesday.

"I must tell you, Madam Secretary, and tell the American people, that Chris is a hero," said Aujali. "He loves Benghazi, he loves the people, he talks to them, he eats with them, and he [was] committed - and unfortunately lost his life because of this commitment."
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” - Voltaire

Greg
Tenured
Posts: 2735
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:12 pm
Location: Greg
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby Greg » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:48 pm

kaytodd wrote:One potential silver lining: Mitt Romney may have brought his campaign for President to an end.


I guess you could say a Romneysplash is the sound an Etch-a-Sketch makes when it is flushed down the toilet.
"Wall Street is not the solution to our problem. Wall Street is the problem!"

Ronald Reagan, corrected

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3980
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: US Diplomats Killed In Libya

Postby ITALIANO » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:09 am

It IS actually very sad. But... how shall I put it... weren't people here (and I'm not talking about Criddic this time, but about the so-called leftists) and more generally in America partying and celebrating all the night because Bin Laden had been killed and finally the nightmare was over? And laughing at me (I'm sure that that thread is still available here) when I tried to humbly imply that not only being happy for the killing of a man, of any man, is barbaric and worthy of a barbaric society, but also - on a more practical, more cynical side - that it would have been more intelligent to catch him alive and that his death wasn't the end of anything..?


Return to “Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest