2016-2017 Emmy Awards

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dws1982
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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby dws1982 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:17 pm

They handed out the Creative Arts awards this weekend, which is the first hundred or so categories.

Saturday Night Live, Stranger Things, and Westworld were the top winners with five awards each. The Night Of won four well-deserved technical awards, including a Cinematography award for Fred Elmes, whose work goes way back to Eraserhead forty years ago. He's built up a long filmography, but aside from a critics award or two, he hasn't had much recognition.

The Guest Acting winners were Dave Chappelle and Melissa McCarthy for Saturday Night Live on the Comedy side, and Gerald McRaney for This Is Us and Alexis Bledel for The Handmaid's Tale on the Drama side.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby dws1982 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:18 pm

Okri wrote: You mean they didn't fix that? Dear me. Like you, I saw Criminal Justice and basically admired it for the performances, but that opening gambit was terrible.

Nope. It diverges from Criminal Justice later on, partially due to length and partially to account for differences in the U.S. and British legal systems, by the first episode is very close to the original, right down to much of the dialogue. Just a huge pileup of boneheaded decisions. I never saw the second series (different cast and unrelated plot), so I'm not sure if it had some of those problems.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Okri » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:54 pm

dws1982 wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:For me, The Night Of is by far the most impressive -- though some might argue that, being a guy, I'd naturally prefer it over the more girly Feud and Big Little Lies.

I liked it a lot too (although I was surprised by how quickly I went through Big Little Lies), but the first episode, which traces the set of circumstances that lead to Naz being arrested, was frustrating, and felt like a little too much--almost comical: It was like he couldn't do a better job looking guilty if he tried. Steals his dad's cab, drives it all over town where it's seen by several witnesses and on camera, has a sexual encounter with a random stranger, uses drugs that alter his memory and perceptions of what's going on, engages in some odd behavior with this girl that involves a knife (which gets his prints all over it), panics when he discovers a dead body, leaves with the knife. I remember watching The Practice back in the day, and there was a client on trial for murder, and the DA said, "If he didn't do it, he definitely represents reasonable doubt for whoever did." Same thing for Naz.

But it's worth noting that it follows the plot of the British show Criminal Justice pretty closely, at least in the initial set-up. I had the same problem with the original show. Both shows had lead actors--Con O'Neil and Ben Whishaw there--who completely overcame any plot issues I had with it. I might go with Riz Ahmed over Turturro because I really did buy that transformation, but they're both excellent.


You mean they didn't fix that? Dear me. Like you, I saw Criminal Justice and basically admired it for the performances, but that opening gambit was terrible.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Big Magilla » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:29 pm

The Night Of was the best of the lot, but it does seem so last year even though it debuted after the Emmy cut-off in June of last year.

I usually have a hard time with Turturro and his quirks, but I liked him in this. Ahmed, though, is my choice for Best Actor.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby dws1982 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Mister Tee wrote:For me, The Night Of is by far the most impressive -- though some might argue that, being a guy, I'd naturally prefer it over the more girly Feud and Big Little Lies.

I liked it a lot too (although I was surprised by how quickly I went through Big Little Lies), but the first episode, which traces the set of circumstances that lead to Naz being arrested, was frustrating, and felt like a little too much--almost comical: It was like he couldn't do a better job looking guilty if he tried. Steals his dad's cab, drives it all over town where it's seen by several witnesses and on camera, has a sexual encounter with a random stranger, uses drugs that alter his memory and perceptions of what's going on, engages in some odd behavior with this girl that involves a knife (which gets his prints all over it), panics when he discovers a dead body, leaves with the knife. I remember watching The Practice back in the day, and there was a client on trial for murder, and the DA said, "If he didn't do it, he definitely represents reasonable doubt for whoever did." Same thing for Naz.

But it's worth noting that it follows the plot of the British show Criminal Justice pretty closely, at least in the initial set-up. I had the same problem with the original show. Both shows had lead actors--Con O'Neil and Ben Whishaw there--who completely overcame any plot issues I had with it. I might go with Riz Ahmed over Turturro because I really did buy that transformation, but they're both excellent.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Mister Tee » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:30 pm

I've done such due diligence as I ever do by making my way through Big Little Lies and The Crown -- added to my already having seen Feud, The Wizard of Lies, Sherlock and The Night Of, it leaves me almost qualified to have an opinion on the Limited Series categories.

For me, The Night Of is by far the most impressive -- though some might argue that, being a guy, I'd naturally prefer it over the more girly Feud and Big Little Lies. Feud I think just got too silly to be taken seriously, but Big Little Lies was a worthy entry and could certainly be fresher in voters' minds than The Night Of (which feels like it was last year). I enjoyed the machinations of Big Little Lies -- the way it kept so much unrevealed till the last episode, without feeling it was annoyingly withholding. But (SPOILERS TO FOLLOW. YOU ARE WARNED. GO AWAY. OKAY -- I'M STARTING NOW) it was disappointing that everything seemed to come down to the one bad guy responsible for all the evil (including breeding his son as follow-up predator). I used to joke with my wife that the Lifetime Network's Sunday marathon could be labeled Wives Who Killed Their Husbands Who Damn Well Deserved It, and the resolution of this story was in that vein -- in fact, it took the concept further, all the way to It Takes a Village to Kill a Predator. It felt to me like this too-easy resolution cheapened the subject matter of spousal abuse, which, till then, had been dealt with in more complex fashion (showing Kidman to some degree getting sexual thrills out of was unusually provocative, but at a certain point the narrative dropped that angle and proclaimed her fully blameless). My disappointment in all this may have been heightened by the casting of Skarsgaard in the husband role -- it's not his fault, really, but I found his casting so obvious (based on what I've seen him do prior) that the character didn't have much dimension for me. (It's like having Hope Davis play a pill -- it comes so easy to her, it evokes no interest.) Oh, and as far as BJ's question about seeing the twist (I assume you mean the connection to Woodley's story), I actually didn't see it but mostly because I wasn't looking there -- I just wanted to find out what happened to who at the charity event, and wasn't expecting further revelation in that strand of the story.

As far as Who Should Win: through the first five episodes, I thought Witherspoon was way ahead -- I found myself thinking, god, I underrate this woman so much; she just found all kinds of little moments to enrich her performance. But then Kidman absolutely crushed in that extended scene with the therapist -- denying, then acquiescing, threatening to leave but begging to be brought back. It was a gorgeously choreographed scene of passive-aggressively getting what you need. I think I'd still vote Witherspoon overall, but couldn't begrudge either a win.

Among men, I'd probably go with Turturro. And for the supporting trophies, I'd actually lean toward the Feud folk: Jackie Hoffman, and either Tucci or Molina.

The Crown has a lot to recommend it -- I found the London smog event completely fascinating (I'd never heard about it before, and neither had my parents), and much admired the Princess Margaret storyline ("When this lot comes across divorce, it's either Reformation or Abdication" was a line for the ages). Claire Foy is quite good as Elizabeth, though the role is kind of recessive by nature. And speaking of recessive -- John Lithgow has been the opposite, frequently descending to hammery in the later years of his career. You'd think that Churchill would appeal to all his worst broad instincts -- but instead, it brings out the best in him. He's really moving in the part...especially, as dws notes, in those scenes where he grudgingly faces up to his obsolescence.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Sabin » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:32 pm

I couldn't get through the season two premiere of Master of None. An homage to 'Bicycle Thieves' opening with a slow-pan to a stack of Criterion Collection DVDs. Nice. Subtle. I can live with that. What I can't live with is that instead of searching for a lost bicycle, it's Dev's lost cell phone, which doesn't go missing until sixteen minutes into the episode. The plot doesn't happen for over half the episode. That's Master of None in a nutshell. Everyone tells me 'Thanksgiving' is the show at its best. That's a pretty low bar at this point.
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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby dws1982 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:08 pm

So The Americans and Mr. Robot both had what many considered disappointing seasons, and they both got dropped in Drama Series. But they still make room for House of Cards, which based on every review I read is past its prime and has been for a couple of seasons now. That's the Emmys in a nutshell.

I haven't seen most of the shows nominated. I think I've only seen The Crown in Drama, which I liked a good bit. Although since Netflix operates on the "we put it all up at once so you can binge" philosophy, I think it's worth pointing out that I ended up watching this like I would a regular series, basically at the rate of an episode per week. I watched the first couple really quickly, but then I decided to stretch it out, and I think it worked fine that way. I like that it jumps away from the trend in TV today that you get so often, where a show is pitched and structured as "a 10 hour movie, not a TV series". The Crown is a TV series, structured with each episode telling the story of a pivotal event in Elizabeth's life through the 50's. It's really well-acted--Claire Foy is great, and I was really caught off-guard by how much smaller and how moving John Lithgow was as Churchill. (He has some scenes in one of the later episodes, where he kind of accepts his aging and the fact that his historical time has past, that are very impressive.) Wish Jared Harris had been nominated as King George, but I think he got caught up where he had to be placed in Support since he appeared in half of the episodes, even though he only appears in a one or two flashbacks in several of those episodes. Production values are really solid too. Not earth-shaking TV, but it's fun, moreso if you like that type of thing.

In Comedy I watched Veep, which was good, even if it was one of the weaker seasons. My main gripe is that the voters reflexively nominated Tony Hale and Matt Walsh again. I don't begrudge Walsh (I've never "got" Tony Hale) but neither he nor Hale had their best season, and Timothy Simons really deserved recognition both this season and last. Reid Scott should've been nominated by this point too, although since his character was away from the others most of this past season, it wasn't his best. Not to mention there's Gary Cole, Sam Richardson, and Kevin Dunn all doing very solid work.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby The Original BJ » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:55 pm

My TV watching has gotten pretty slim in recent years, but I've dipped in to a few of the series with short runs.

We discussed Feud pretty thoroughly in its own thread. It had its merits -- I certainly don't object to any one of the acting citations -- but got too ridiculous by the end for me to be rooting for it to win top prizes.

Of the limited series, I definitely preferred Big Little Lies. My understanding is that the book was pretty much a beach read -- and you can see the inherent soapiness to the structure -- but I thought David E. Kelley found a lot of interesting insight in the material. (Specifically, I found myself often thinking, that was a sharp line of dialogue, but just the right amount of clever that I'd believe that character in the real world would actually say that.) And as someone who grew up in small(ish) town California, I thought the portrait of this culturally privileged, liberal (but maybe not as liberal as we think), close-knit community was spot on. And the actresses -- particularly Witherspoon, Kidman, and Dern -- delivered performances that were right up there with their very best work. (I actually had the thought that Witherspoon's Madeline is what Tracy Flick might have turned into once she grew up a little bit.)

I did have one significant issue with the series, though, and that's that I figured out the Big Twist episodes before it was revealed. My feeling was less that this had anything to do with the story being obviously predictable, and more to how certain scenes were specifically scripted and directed. I think some adjustments could have helped the filmmakers hide the ball a little more, making the surprise more of a real jolt than a march toward the inevitable. (Trying not to reveal spoilers, but I could go into more detail if others wanted to take the discussion there).

Stranger Things, with its eight episode order, was also pretty doable for me. I'm not as high on the series as it seems the whole world was, though I do think it has worthy elements. I actually think it might have worked better as a movie, given that it's mostly a stylistic/thematic throwback to '80's pop culture, and living in the series' fun, scary, adventurous world could have been an enjoyable lark at two hours. (It could have been the movie Super 8 wanted to be). But I didn't think there was enough story to fill out the running time, and there was a serious lack of revelation in the back half. (I had a tough time with plot lines that basically amounted to, they're going into the Upside Down to save the kid...and then they do.) And one of my typical frustrations with fantasy fare -- that storylines get resolved through fantastical means for literally no discernable reason -- reared its head here as well.

I definitely don't lament Winona Ryder's exclusion -- I'm not often a fan of hers, and found her pitched over-the-top throughout. And the Shannon Purser nomination is ridiculous, the result of a year-long Internet obsession with the cult of Barb that I couldn't begin to understand. (I actually came to the series late, and assumed this fan-favorite character must have made a hugely memorable impact -- she barely does anything!) David Harbour's nomination, though, is definitely worthy, and it's always nice to see a longtime character actor get to break out like this.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby dws1982 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:30 pm

Bog wrote:However, I also do not know how the balloting works...because Coon is actually up for Best Limited Series Actress and I'm wondering if this was where it was slated...and thus snubbed there and not in drama?

Coon's nomination was for her work on Fargo...which is a show that some people say should be competing in the regular series categories.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Kellens101 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:23 pm

Lastly, I was hoping for nominations for Rhea Seehorn's continued wonderful work on Better Call Saul, Frank Langella's terrific work on The Americans this season and a Drama Series nod for Orange is the New Black, which had a dark and powerful fourth season after its uneven and weaker third season. I thought Samira Wiley was the MVP of the 4th season and was disappointed to see Uzo Aduba recognized yet again. I don't dislike her work but she's been recognized enough in the past and Wiley's gut-wrenching work was tops that year.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Bog » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:51 am

I am not blind to the outrage over the Leftovers snub on social media...some calling the races..."who was second best to The Leftovers" in each category . However, I also do not know how the balloting works...because Coon is actually up for Best Limited Series Actress and I'm wondering if this was where it was slated...and thus snubbed there and not in drama? That being said...only 5 nominees exist there, where are 7 allowed and where are they not? Big Little Lies is also on HBO but with big names and I would bet the FYC money was shoveled the way of the Oscar winning actress(es) vehicle.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Kellens101 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am

Also, I hope Elisabeth Moss finally wins an Emmy for her jaw-dropping work in Handmaid's Tale, after years of being ignored for Mad Men. She has grown to become a fantastic, nuanced and powerful actress and I hope she is rewarded this year, along with Alexis Bledel's surprising and chillingly great work as Guest Actress. The Handmaid's Tale was a very difficult show to get through, but it was sensational throughout, no thanks to Moss and Bledel's amazing work, along with the directing, writing and work of the rest of the ensemble. I expected greatness from Moss and she gave, along with Carrie Coon, the best performance on Tv this season, but I did not expect this astonishing work from Bledel, who is usually underwhelming as an actress, but who knocked it out of the park in this role.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby Kellens101 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:36 am

My one hope was that The Leftovers would finally be nominated for its astonishing final year, which cemented its status as one of the best shows on television, if not the best. I was also hoping for nods for the sensational work by Carrie Coon, Justin Theroux, Amy Brennemann and Christopher Eccleston. But, alas that was not to be. My other favorite show, Better Call Saul, fortunately did pretty well and might be my favorite as Best Drama Series, though I too lament the exclusion of Michael McKean's great work as he probably would be my winner for Supporting Actor, even over the continued excellence of Jonathan Banks.

The Americans, which usually gets my vote as Best Drama Series, had its weakest season this year after having its best season last year and finally breaking through. Thankfully, Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell got nominations for their fantastic work again, and the show was still very good this season. It just wasn't as amazing as the previous 3 or 4 and definitely was slow and frustrating at times this year as it mostly set things up for what seems to be an explosive final season. There were definitely great moments though and I do wish the show had been nominated again, over almost the whole Best Drama Series slate, minus Better Call Saul and The Handmaid's Tale. I also hope Holly Taylor eventually gets a nomination for her startlingly nuanced work as Paige Jennings, in a performance that is remarkable coming from a young actress. She has become one of the show's secret weapons, holding her own against the incredible work by Rhys and Russell. Also, I'm glad Alison Wright got a nomination this year, even though it should've been for last year, for her staggering and powerful work in Season 4.

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Re: 2016-2017 Emmy Awards

Postby anonymous1980 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:13 am

Nominations have been announced.

Some random thoughts:

They nominated Stranger Things across the board, including nominations for David Harbour, Millie Bobby Brown and Barb but they managed to snub the series' biggest star, Winona Ryder.

Pasek and Paul will no longer be able to EGOT in one year. They got snubbed in the Music & Lyrics category.

Michael McKean was robbed. He should've been a slam-dunk winner for Supporting Actor in a Drama this year for Better Call Saul.


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