The Blind Side

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Postby barrybrooks8 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:22 pm

wow, I missed the party. I am thankful for the existance of the site and the board. I've visited it for years and I appreciate the opinions, the lists, the more movie knowledgable people than me, and heck, even the drama.
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Postby flipp525 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:05 pm

I agree with Sabin. It would be nice to have a female perspective on the Board, for one. And, ya know, not an Indian man pretending to be a white Ivy League girl.
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Postby OscarGuy » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:37 pm

I have enabled the board to allow people to look at the board without logging in first. The forums and categories were already set to allow anyone to read, but I didn't realize that setting was blocking others from seeing it at all. I had originally intended for others to read topics without having access to post...just they couldn't see it.
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Postby Sabin » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:40 pm

I agree. Even with the knowledge of what can happen when a crazy pants gets too close to the Board, I welcome some fresh viewpoints here. This is starting to feel like The Exterminating Angel.
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Postby Big Magilla » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Good points, Sonic.
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Postby Sonic Youth » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:02 am

I'm not touching this argument either, but if OG would like suggestions on how to increase the membership of the board, I would suggest removing the firewall that prevents non-members from reading the discussion board. It's one thing to be unable to participate without signing up, but not being able to read it is another matter. I, for one, would be disinclined to give any private information out to a strange website without knowing what I'd get in return. For all anyone knows, the board has been long abandoned or it's overrun by spammers. Plus, it will have the additional benefit of being picked up by search engines, something that's not happening now.

There are downsides to this approach. You're going to draw in the psychos, the mediocrities, etc. But you may also attract those who Google "Diary of a Country Priest" and the like. But as it is, the core group is eventually going to shrink further as some posters eventually find other activities, take an extended breather during Oscar Season downtime, or worst of all, pass on to that great internet in the sky. (R.I.P. cam.)

As for Cinemasight, I should give it a look. My reason for not doing so is because the discussion board is on my Favorites file, and it's my default location, so this is where I go. FWIW, I've noticed that the posters who comment on the Awards Daily front page and the regular contributers on the Awards Daily Forums appear to be entirely different people.




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Postby Sabin » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:27 pm

What I would like to know at this point is why more UAADB members are not posting on CinemaSight. Wesley, and to a lesser extent, Tripp (FilmFan), Wes H (Movie Wes) and I have put a lot of effort into beefing up the content with very little response, most of it from people who find the new site and don't post here on the UAADB.

I'm going to ignore every other facet of this stupid argument, and cite my reason for both doing so and not putting a lot of effort into posting on CinemaSight for the same reason: I don't really have time. Or just the inclination. I've posted a little in the past. I'll probably do it again. I appreciate the time that's put into it. I actually don't visit any other message boards. For a few years now, this has been the last vestige of message boarding I've done and probably will ever do.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Postby ITALIANO » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:13 am

Now, Oscar Guy, dont play the victim. I've never said or implied that I am a God or that Italians are superior beings (the opposite actually!), as you know VERY well. Anyone with a good memory knows that I've been attacked often, not only by you maybe, but certainly by groups which you were part of. Yes, I have my ideas, and by the way I think that I'm the last person on this board who can be accused of being unoriginal in my points of view. Of course I have a line of thinking, and it won't change, but what I write is almost always reasonably intelligent and profound I think.

Your work on this board has always been very good, and I must admit that you have banned me only for very short periods, or only from single threads. The very fact that we post here means that we appreciate your efforts - as you said, there are other similar places on the net, and trust me, I don't know about Big Magilla or Mister Tee but I personally could never even just by mistake post there. The level here is certainly higher and this is partly due to you. Sometimes words arent necessary - you already know what we think of the UAADB. (I havent explored other areas of the new Cinemasight yet, and I don't think I'd be welcome there!).

But all this doesnt mean that I must agree with you, with your (often peculiar, let's admit it) view on movies, or accept the attacks, especially considering that often it's not just you, but your supporters as well (Rain Bard is a typical example). I hope you despise them as you should, and appreciate my honesty, and not only when it's about your good work on this board.

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Postby Big Magilla » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:16 am

OscarGuy wrote:There's a reason Tee and Magilla and others read other message boards. It's not that they can't find stimulating or interesting conversations about film here, it's because this is so tiny a community and there's virtually nothing going on here but bickering, venom and narrowness on the board.

Speaking for myself, I occasionally go to other boards for hard news, not to participate in their forums.

I did, years ago participate briefly in one of them but it was very frustrating. The comments were mostly inane.

One thing they all have in common is that they all have a hard corps of regulars who tend to say the same things over and over. Rarely does anyone compliment the site owner, mostly they argue with him or her.

What I would like to know at this point is why more UAADB members are not posting on CinemaSight. Wesley, and to a lesser extent, Tripp (FilmFan), Wes H (Movie Wes) and I have put a lot of effort into beefing up the content with very little response, most of it from people who find the new site and don't post here on the UAADB.

What's the reason? Lack of time? Lack of interest? Something else?
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Postby OscarGuy » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:47 am

I will partially admit blame in this incident because I misread Italiano's statement. Although I copied it verbatim. What I read was: Italy (or other important European Countries). The key word was 'or'. If that had been the word used, I would have been entirely accurate in my statements. However, it was "and", which I did read as it didn't show in any important European countries. However, as Brian pointed out, my reading of the words was not entirely inaccurate, so while my approach to the words was a bit of an overreaction, I think ITALIANO's responses have been not only more reactionary, but far more nasty and vicious.

As to these "attacks" he's talking about, never once were these supposed private message attacks directed at a specific opinion about a specific movie. He knows this as I've explained it to him before, but against the way he treats people in his commentary on this board. He treats everyone like they are inferior to him simply because they aren't Italian. So, I tried to handle his aggressiveness privately so that the rest of the board could have some peace in the matter. This was months ago and while the most vile and reprehensible attacks did surround The Blind Side, it was a pattern of behavior that was brought to the fore in that particular instance.

So, while I may attack Italiano on occasion, we have had serious, productive conversations, but I get attacked by him just as frequently, if not more so, than I attack him.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Italiano. You don't have to agree, but you need to be respectful, but I know that you are incapable of that unless the opinion also mirrors your rather narrow opinion about the world. As simplistic or meandering as some Americans may be in their approaches to many things, your views are just as simplistic and meandering. You rarely say anything new or thought provoking, you just ramp up the same rhetoric over and over again with very little variance. It's still a narrowminded approach whether you will freely admit to it or not.

Personally, I think this board would be a far quieter, happier and peaceful place if you were never to post here again and, believe me, I wouldn't cry over it. There might have been a time, but at this point, I don't care anymore. This entire board could rot and die for all I care and you are one of many contributing causes to this.

There's a reason Tee and Magilla and others read other message boards. It's not that they can't find stimulating or interesting conversations about film here, it's because this is so tiny a community and there's virtually nothing going on here but bickering, venom and narrowness on the board.

And as Magilla can attest I have been on the cusp of shutting this board down permanently for the last couple of years. I get frustrated with the constant vitriol and not just against me, but others as well. The polls may get lots of votes, but that doesn't mean lots of people read these words. Matter of fact, I would almost guess that there are very few readers poking about on the forum.

But, if I started a new forum and closed this one, I don't know if everyone would move over, but I wouldn't doubt if many do and we'll just be right back where we started. So, regardless of my feelings, shutting down the UAADB wouldn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

However, I may very well start a second board as part of CinemaSight. Then, I would leave this site up to wither away and die on its own because I simply don't have the heart or passion I once did for it and I'm so frustrated and angry and disappointed in the way this place has turned out. I have many other issues going on in my life and I don't need further headaches.

I am trying to make a success out of myself and it's impossible. I can't attain the readership many others in my field have. I can't encourage more people to participate or read and I have no idea what to do about it. I've added contributors, expanded content and still feel I'm spinning my wheels without going anywhere. I don't know what I can do and abandoning it all has been a thought in my mind for quite awhile. I thought the forced transition to a new domain would have helped and while some aspects have, I just don't feel as valuable or important.

But, go ahead, Italiano, continue to attack away. Continue to refuse responsibility. Continue to lie about private conversations. Continue to bemoan how you are treated and how you are a God to cinema. Continue your affront in an effort to drive me to shut down this board, your effort to convince me I'm not worth reading and that no one cares about my opinion, continue to fall back on your "not my native language" argument every time you don't want to admit responsibility. Continue demeaning me and devaluing my writing and my opinions. I don't have the passion or strength anymore to keep up with it.

I'm very tired and very sick of dealing with it all anymore. I've tried to quit posting. I've tried to quite participating. I've tried to be nice. I've tried to expand. Everything I've done has been met with derision, hatred, loathing and I just don't feel like listening to it or taking it anymore. I could ban Italiano, I could ban anyone, but I don't because I still believe in the freedom of speech and the freedom of participation. I don't know what I can do anymore and I'm just to tired to care. If Italiano wants me to quit posting and leave the board altogether, he'd be happy. He doesn't care about me or what I'm going through or how difficult it is to deal with him. He'll just move on, as he has in the past, to attack someone else. To try to make them feel worthless and unimportant.

For all the times you guys have thanked me for running this message board. For all those times you've tried to show appreciation for it, there are times when I feel like you're just saying that because it's my birthday or my anniversary. I don't get compliments or kind words regarding my thoughts or opinions or my attempts to change. I just get comments about being thankful I started this board. It's honestly not enough. I know what most of you think about me and my opinions. Italiano's just the one who most loudly speaks them. He is, in essence, your mouthpiece.

So, I may just fade into the background or leave altogether, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm just tired. I'm tired of everything. The only reason any of you care if I'm here is as long as the board stays. So, you'll get your wish, I guess. I'll leave the board in both ways. Leave it standing. And leave it as a contributor.
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Postby ITALIANO » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:58 am

rain Bard wrote:The attacks you've made on The Blind Side however, go so far as to implicate anyone who doesn't see the film as you do as ignorant about important issues in America. If I were OscarGuy or dws and I thought deeply about these issues and disagreed with your dogmatic take, I might feel personally attacked as well.

Luckily I haven't seen the film, as I said before. So I don't.

First of all, if you havent seen the movie how can you even just comment on my "view" (negative as it may be) on it and on those who like it?

Also, The Blind Side - which, again, you havent seen, so you can only trust me on this - isn't just another bad movie. Oscar Guy loves lots of movies that I find atrocious, but it's just a question of taste. Bad taste, in my opinion, and I don't see why I shouldnt say it since I know one or two things about movies, but still just taste, I admit it. He's free to like what he wants of course.

The problem with The Blind Side - a movie, Rain Bard, that you havent seen so I dont understand how you can judge my opinion on it - is that it's a very political movie, and it implies things - politically and socially - that are so obviously racist and fascistic (and what's ever worse, masked as inspirational, uplifting "true story" tale) that it's not only my right, it's MY DUTY to condemn it, like I'd condemn, say, a movie pro-death penalty and I'd attack those who liked it. I'd be right if I did that, do you understand it? I would be criminal IF I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING. (It should be your duty too, actually, especially as a teacher or former teacher; not all movies are harmless cartoons, Rain Bard).

While once, when I was a teenager, America was "the enemy" and we used to fight it - non-violently of course, but by taking parts in protests in front of consulates or embassies - now I know that I was wrong, that it's not America, or any other country (we weren't softer with Italy), but parts of it, aspects of its mentality, of its political choices, of its population. Yet these aspects must still be fought, by Americans first of all, by those intelligent enough to understand what's behind a movie like this (and other movies) rather than just being moved by the supposedly affecting story it tells. It's politics, Rain Bard, and politeness isnt the way to deal with politics.

Also, I never PERSONALLY attacked Oscar Guy - I attacked a certain political approach; if he felt included, it's not my fault. Yet I've been attacked by him, even privately.

You may teach English, but I still think that if I say "Italy and other important countries" it doesnt mean "ALL the important countries". I'm a foreigner, English isnt my first language, but I'm quite sure that I'm right about this (though you will never admit it). But even if it wasnt as clear as I thought, before attacking me he should have asked me what I exactly meant.

What I find more surprising, though, isn't your oily attitude (and, again, you havent seen the movie - but defending who's already in a strong position seems to be a popular strategy around here), but the silence of all the others.

Oh, and by the way, it doesn't have to do with it being about a not-so-popular sport (it opened in Portugal where nobody plays American football, and it's still a major Oscar winner we are talking about). But it must be very reassuring to believe that that's the reason.




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Postby Mister Tee » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:36 pm

rain bard, well expressed all around.

And I think your "depends on the country's exposure to US football" theory makes complete sense. It's also possible that the film's Oscar trajectory startled even Warners, and they'd made these plans thinking the film just a Bullock/sports vehicle, for which this release pattern wouldn't seem as unusual.

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Postby rain Bard » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:26 pm

As Big Magilla and I said before, it can be interpreted multiple ways. There is no, and there will be no, clear answer. I'm sure that there are words and phrases in Italian that can be interpreted in multiple ways as well.

I'm not defending Oscar Guy- I think he's being just as peevish as you in this "debate". If he were being clear-headed and unemotional then I'm sure he would have realized that you might have had a different intent in your meaning, and wouldn't have felt the confidence and justification to latch onto what he thought was a definitive, more severe error. His stridency only made him look all the more foolish. I understand why he's reacting that way though.

And so should you, since your own apparent emotional investment in this "argument" is hampering your own reading comprehension as well; I never said nor implied that there's anything wrong with you attacking my country.

The attacks you've made on The Blind Side however, go so far as to implicate anyone who doesn't see the film as you do as ignorant about important issues in America. If I were OscarGuy or dws and I thought deeply about these issues and disagreed with your dogmatic take, I might feel personally attacked as well.

Luckily I haven't seen the film, as I said before. So I don't.

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Postby ITALIANO » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm

rain Bard wrote:If I were in a mood to take issue with your wording because I knew your every statement on The Blind Side was a personal attack on my taste and my understanding of the political and racial issues of my own country, my brain might have seized on the initial impression and not taken that split second to be more charitable in my interpretation of your words.

Personal attacks? "MY OWN COUNTRY"??? Rain Bard, "your own country" isnt perfect and I can attack it ANY TIME I WANT, ok???

Forget about "moods", forget about "interpretation", and stop defending Oscar Guy. Just answer now: if I say "Italy and other countries" - regardless of moods and interpretation - does it mean "ALL other countries"?

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Postby rain Bard » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:42 pm

When I first read it, I interpreted it as OscarGuy did- for a split second, before I guessed (probably because I was already aware of a UK theatrical release) what you really meant to say.

This stuff is very finely nuanced though. If I were in a mood to take issue with your wording because I knew your every statement on The Blind Side was a personal attack on my taste and my understanding of the political and racial issues of my own country, my brain might have seized on the initial impression and not taken that split second to be more charitable in my interpretation of your words. This kind of thing happens all the time- words have multiple meanings, and we all sometimes latch onto one meaning to the exclusion of others when an emotional trigger is pulled. I can feel pretty foolish when it happens to me.


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