The Dark Knight

The Original BJ
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Postby The Original BJ » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:14 pm

Mister Tee wrote:Let me confess something that makes me queasy about this: the fact that so many people began touting Ledger for an Oscar within hours/days of his death.

I completely agree with this statement. "Maybe he'll win an Oscar for Dark Knight" was something that NEVER crossed my mind until I kept reading it everywhere.

Also, I have to confess I'm surprised at how beloved Ledger seems to be by the Hollywood/critical establishment. I loved his performance in Brokeback Mountain and thought him a very promising actor, but this "Ledger MUST win Oscar" movement has caught me completely off guard. Is it the tragic death alone that has lionized him...or am I missing something?

All of that being said, I guess there's some Oscar precedent with Pacino in Dick Tracy, though dear lord I hope Ledger's performance is MUCH better...

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Postby flipp525 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:50 pm

rolotomasi99 wrote:so true! usually women are much more sensible and fair about money issues, and much less likely to be money grubbing and greedy with their children's wealth...then again, there is always the exception to that rule, like dinah lohan! :angry:

See also: Spelling, Candy.
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Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:48 pm

Big Magilla wrote:I haven't read the page 6 "article" but I do know that Michelle Williams' father, from whom she is estranged, is an international crook. Ledger's father lost one fortune due to his ineptitude. I say let Ledger's and Williams' mothers work out an equitable settlement for the future welface of their grand-daughter and make sure that their grand-fathers never see a penny of the future profits from The Dark Knight.

so true! usually women are much more sensible and fair about money issues, and much less likely to be money grubbing and greedy with their children's wealth...then again, there is always the exception to that rule, like dinah lohan! :angry:
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Postby Big Magilla » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:24 pm

I haven't read the page 6 "article" but I do know that Michelle Williams' father, from whom she is estranged, is an international crook. Ledger's father lost one fortune due to his ineptitude. I say let Ledger's and Williams' mothers work out an equitable settlement for the future welface of their grand-daughter and make sure that their grand-fathers never see a penny of the future profits from Tje Dark Knight.

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Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:19 pm

Penelope wrote:
flipp525 wrote:
rolotomasi99 wrote:add that to the small number of posthumous acting nominations (curiously all male, as a side note)

Not true. As cited below, Jeanne Eagels received a postumous nomination for her lead performance in 1929's The Letter.

Also Ledger and Williams were never married so she's not his "ex-wife". And, from all accounts I've read, Heath's family has been very gracious toward Matilda and the mother of his only child. When it came out that his will didn't include provisions for them (as he hadn't re-written it in some time), Ledger's father came forward to say that Michelle and Matilda would always be taken care of because that's what his son would've wanted.

According to the not-always-reliable Page 6 from the NY Post, the issue is Ledger's back-end deal for The Dark Knight--he would earn a percentage of the profits, which likely will be a considerable amount. But, I agree, I can't imagine Ledger's family at least not providing for Matilda.

wow. i just totally failed in my recent posts. :p

my apologies to the late jeanne eagels.

even more silly of me to think ledger and williams were married, though it then seems somehow even less appropriate to give her an oscar for her ex-boyfriend...whatever.

as for the money issue, i only know what i read on imdb's news feed. i guess their source was page 6 (which i have never intentionally read). what i remember is ledger's family saying ledger was broke. he had hardly any money in the bank (for a movie star) and his only assets were a few pieces of property in california and new york. williams' family was contesting that assertion, and demanding an independent probe of what ledger was actually worth. considering the ledger family's statement of support of his daughter, it seemed surprising the williams' family would accuse them of lying. michelle williams' was not necessarily part of this feud.

this is why i usually avoid celebrity gossip. rich, spoiled people fighting with other rich, spoiled people. i am sure michelle williams' is a nice girl, but it seems silly to worry about getting a piece of ledger's estate. it is not like her daughter will be begging in the streets if they do not inherit his money. i would think williams' DAWSON CREEK residuals would be enough to send her child to harvard. :laugh:
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Postby Mister Tee » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Let me confess something that makes me queasy about this: the fact that so many people began touting Ledger for an Oscar within hours/days of his death. Part of me wonders if this rush of advocacy is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, let's be frank: comic book movies have yielded virtually no Oscar nominations, let alone wins. That one should suddenly become so universally predicted makes me fear it's a wish becoming father to the thought.

Should I be bowled over by his performance, I'll be happy to reconsider. But I remain a skeptic upfront.

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Postby Penelope » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:17 am

flipp525 wrote:
rolotomasi99 wrote:add that to the small number of posthumous acting nominations (curiously all male, as a side note)

Not true. As cited below, Jeanne Eagels received a postumous nomination for her lead performance in 1929's The Letter.

Also Ledger and Williams were never married so she's not his "ex-wife". And, from all accounts I've read, Heath's family has been very gracious toward Matilda and the mother of his only child. When it came out that his will didn't include provisions for them (as he hadn't re-written it in some time), Ledger's father came forward to say that Michelle and Matilda would always be taken care of because that's what his son would've wanted.

According to the not-always-reliable Page 6 from the NY Post, the issue is Ledger's back-end deal for The Dark Knight--he would earn a percentage of the profits, which likely will be a considerable amount. But, I agree, I can't imagine Ledger's family at least not providing for Matilda.
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Postby Zahveed » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:00 am

If Ledger does get a nom, supporting would be the more logical choice. TDK isn't about The Joker like Tim Burton's first Batman movie was; it's about Batman's confrontation with this menace, his relationship with Rachel Dawes, and the rise of Harvey Dent. Also, the Joker is quite the character and characters tend to veer towards supporting - to my knowledge.
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Postby flipp525 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:53 am

rolotomasi99 wrote:add that to the small number of posthumous acting nominations (curiously all male, as a side note)

Not true. As cited below, Jeanne Eagels received a postumous nomination for her lead performance in 1929's The Letter.

Also Ledger and Williams were never married so she's not his "ex-wife". And, from all accounts I've read, Heath's family has been very gracious toward Matilda and the mother of his only child. When it came out that his will didn't include provisions for them (as he hadn't re-written it in some time), Ledger's father came forward to say that Michelle and Matilda would always be taken care of because that's what his son would've wanted.




Edited By flipp525 on 1215014259
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Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:46 am

Penelope wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:I would say the only questiion now is who will accept the award on his behalf - Christopher Nolan, Christian Bale, Michelle Williams, someone else?

Nolan or Williams would be the most appropriate.

considering how ledger's family has allegedly treated williams and her daughter regarding ledger's estate, nolan might be the more acceptable choice. it seems wrong to pick the ex-wife to accept the award if ledger's family objects.
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Postby Sabin » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:45 am

I love that damn near every review of the film or critique of these superlatives begins with "I know it's too early..." and that all things considered that doesn't mean a thing.
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Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:43 am

OscarGuy wrote:I can see this going two ways. 1) There really is a pro-Ledger sentiment that could lead him to an Oscar. 2) These people are going to talk it to death and Academy members are going to get tired of the talk and ignore him completely. I'm currently leaning towards option 2.

i agree with option 2 as well oscarguy. not to be a wet blanket or anything, but other than al pacino in DICK TRACY no other actor has ever been nominated for a performance from a comic book movie. yes, i know paul newman and william hurt were nominated for movies based on graphic novels, but to me there is a difference between a graphic novel and a honest-to-goodness comic book.

add that to the small number of posthumous acting nominations (curiously all male, as a side note) and the likelihood of ledger being nominated seems statistically stacked against him. however, the academy is crazy and could do just about anything. who would have thought a fantasy film could have won best picture? the younger crowd of oscar voters may be less prejudicial against the movie's source material.

however, saying all that, i am really surprised some people are pushing ledger for lead actor. i know we have had countless arguments about who merits the status of lead vs supporting in a movie, but the batman movies are about batman. the villains are supporting characters in the truest sense of the word. they support the main story about the batman, the hero.

i think if ledger has any chance, it is in the supporting category. sure, pushing a supporting performance for a lead nomination sometimes pays-off (streep in THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA) and sometimes can even result in a win (hopkins in THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS), but for the most part i think trying to pass yourself off as a lead when you are clearly a supporting only annoys and confuses oscar voters.

obviously i have not seen the movie, but i think ledger is a brilliant actor and hope he receives a supporting nomination. however, i really think it is a long shot, and as we know oscar has a way of slapping down critic's predictions if they are feeling pressured to make a certain choice. i hope people do not oversell the performance and then hurt his chances.

i cannot freakin wait to see the movie. :D
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Postby Penelope » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:53 am

Big Magilla wrote:I would say the only questiion now is who will accept the award on his behalf - Christopher Nolan, Christian Bale, Michelle Williams, someone else?

Nolan or Williams would be the most appropriate.
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Postby Big Magilla » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:37 am

Oscar talk this early is usually limited to the Oscar sites, but this article went out over the news wire services and has appeared everywhere. An Oscar nomination is virtually assured now, and with the Oscars being presented on the first anniversary of his death (a fact I hadn't realized until it was noted in this article), he becomes even more of a sentimental favortie to win. I would say the only questiion now is who will accept the award on his behalf - Christopher Nolan, Christian Bale, Michelle Williams, someone else?

I believe the initial plan was to push him for support, but the idea of a posthumous Oscar for Ledger has taken on such a life of its own that I think a lead nomination is virtually assured now.

If he wins one or more of the big three critics awards, the New York or L.A. or National Society of Film Critics, he'll be a shoo-in for the Oscar as well, but it's way too early at this point to really have a good feel for what will happen with any of these awards.

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Postby Zahveed » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:36 am

Zahveed wrote:
MovieWes wrote:So, if The Riddler becomes a villian for the next installment, which actor would you have in mind to play the role?

James Franco?

I take that back. After reading the "How Awful" thread, I'd say Sacha Baron Cohen would make an interesting Riddler.
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