Everything Is Great and Amazing

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criddic3
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby criddic3 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:05 pm

flipp525 wrote:
criddic3 wrote:I don't think it's too late to separate from Trump and if I were in office I would do my best to save the party.

How delightfully fantasy-like. In the real world, this is not the case at all. Trump and the entire GOP are one in the same now.

Where have you been?


There are still plenty of Republicans, both in office and in the rank & file, who are vocally opposed to President Trump. Fighting from within is the only good option short of splitting the party in two.
"If you can't stand the nut on the left and you can't stand the nut on the right, go for the Johnson,” Jonathan S. Bush (10/21/2016)

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby flipp525 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:16 pm

criddic3 wrote:I don't think it's too late to separate from Trump and if I were in office I would do my best to save the party.

How delightfully fantasy-like. In the real world, this is not the case at all. Trump and the entire GOP are one in the same now.

Where have you been?
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Precious Doll » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:48 am

"I have no interest in all of that. I find that all tabloid stupidity" Woody Allen, The Guardian, 2014, in response to his adopted daughter's allegations.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Okri » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:02 pm

Honestly, it most assuredly is.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby criddic3 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:26 pm

I don't think it's too late to separate from Trump and if I were in office I would do my best to save the party.
"If you can't stand the nut on the left and you can't stand the nut on the right, go for the Johnson,” Jonathan S. Bush (10/21/2016)

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Sabin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:23 pm

Mister Tee wrote
A train carrying GOP Congressfolk collides with a garbage truck. Holy metaphor, Batman! Way too on the nose.

I stole your joke and texted it to a few friends of mine. All of their responses were "That's not funny. The driver died." We're in a fun new world...

But moving on...

Before I respond, something I noticed from Bernie's response to Trump's SOTU was that he brought up Russia. Democrats on the far left consider Russia to be massively overstated. To me, that was clear evidence that he is interested in appealing to a broader swath of voters. I'm reminded of a Lee Atwater quote: "There's a tiny boat in the middle of the ocean, and in that boat is everybody the American people can fathom as their President. Michael Dukakis was never in the boat." I love Bernie, but he's not in the boat. And I've been reading a bit about Jimmy Carter's administration and I worry about similar inflexibilities.

Mister Tee wrote
4) Sabin is correct, that the best Dem formula for victory is to get the urban liberals plus African-Americans -- the Obama coalition. But this ignores the fact that Sanders did TERRIBLY with black voters in 2016. Yes, they say in polling they'll vote for him over Trump (Duh!), but there's no sign he'll appeal to them in primaries, or turn them out in big numbers in the general;

I agree to points one through three...

But here, I think Bernie had three things working against him: 1) he didn't run a good campaign (which is to say, he didn't run to win until in many ways he'd already lost), 2) he wasn't great at speaking to people of color, and 3) he was up against the wife of "The First Black President." In 2020, he won't be. He'll be running against how many Democrats? Ten? Twenty? And he has much wider name recognition than he did before. I think you're underestimating how well Bernie Sanders stands to do in the primaries.

The general? That's a different story. But it is interesting that you're so bullish on Democratic chances but if it happens to be Bernie, you think the same people who have been turning out in droves would stay at home.


Mister Tee wrote
5) like okri and others, I say, if it's time to move on from Hillary (who, you know, got by far the most votes in 2016, even with Russia, the FBI and much of the news media crippling her), it's also time to let go of the guy she trounced in the primaries. New generation, please.

Sounds great. I'll feel a lot more comfortable when I know who we got.
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Mister Tee » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm

I've been mostly absent from this thread, but, to catch up on a number of things raised, and also to address new stuff:

A train carrying GOP Congressfolk collides with a garbage truck. Holy metaphor, Batman! Way too on the nose.

Trey Gowdy announces he's retiring, making him the eleventy-millionth chairman to do so. But, still, we'll hear all year that the Democrats are blowing it, and Pubs are going to make a strong comeback. I only they could get Republicans to believe that.

I blithely skipped the State of the Union last night (watched an old movie called The Cheaters, a bizarre mash-up of My Man Godfrey and The Bishop's Wife, which is a delightful mess), but I did tune in for Joe Kennedy's speech. My feeling is, if his name was Joe Blank from Limbo, I'd still be saying, Who is this kid? -- he's really got it. Beautifully crafted, succinct summation of the Democratic approach, delivered with credible earnestness. Steve Schmidt on MSNBC said it was the best SOTU response he could remember, and I concur.

A measure of his success: Russian bots were all over Twitter last night saying "We don't need dynasties", suggesting he scares them. As far as dynasties: a member of his family last ran for president 38 years ago. Is there a statute of limitations, after which a family member can run for higher office without being hit with that stupid claim? (Asking with FDR in mind.)

I have zero worry about Robert Mueller resigning. Trump attempting to fire him? -- that's another matter, and such an action would hasten the constitutional crisis we're edging toward. But Mueller leave on his own? No frickin' way.

To Sabin's question about Korean reunification: 1) it's not happening; 2) if it were to miraculously come about, it wouldn't redound to Trump's credit, because he'd have had nothing to do with it.

As for Bernie Sanders: 1) he's way too old; 2) he's never faced a national attack ad (Hillary treated him with kid gloves throughout 2016), meaning his good approval numbers are seriously flimsy -- keep in mind: Hillary had great approvals in 2014, but relentless "emails!" coverage sabotaged her by Election Day; 3) there's no evidence he has any grasp of governing, as opposed to sloganing; I agree with plenty of his analysis of what's wrong, but see no plan to improve things other than "I'll demand they do it and they will"; 4) Sabin is correct, that the best Dem formula for victory is to get the urban liberals plus African-Americans -- the Obama coalition. But this ignores the fact that Sanders did TERRIBLY with black voters in 2016. Yes, they say in polling they'll vote for him over Trump (Duh!), but there's no sign he'll appeal to them in primaries, or turn them out in big numbers in the general; 5) like okri and others, I say, if it's time to move on from Hillary (who, you know, got by far the most votes in 2016, even with Russia, the FBI and much of the news media crippling her), it's also time to let go of the guy she trounced in the primaries. New generation, please.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby OscarGuy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:49 am

Mueller won't step down. He'll have to be fired because he knows that Obstruction of Justice will be easier to prove if such a thing happens. I think it will also galvanize support for the Dems in the midterms and he'll be re-hired as a special prosecutor immediately after. I also think the GOP posturing that makes it sound like they aren't concerned will actually disappear if Mueller is canned.
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Sabin » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:42 am

I'm going to need someone to reassure me that Mueller isn't stepping down...
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:45 pm

Greg wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:We don't need Medicare for All. Why is that suddenly so important? I'm on Medicare and I have never had so many problems with insurance company screw-ups too numerous to list and ridiculously high drug prices with the donut hole in the middle of the year in which you have to pay even higher prices until the hole is filled with your money, adding insult to injury. With more people in the program it can only get worse. What we need is a system where you go to the doctor, get treated and not have to pay anything outside of your monthly premium. That's not Medicare for anyone, let alone all.


Were you ever covered in the Veterans Administration? What I think would work best would be a VA For All where the VA system is expanded to cover the entire nation.

I'm eligible for VA coverage, but having lived in California where the VA system has always been sub-par, I was reluctant to join in New Jersey where everyone seems to be satisfied with their coverage. Still, those who do take advantage of the VA, have to have outside coverage for what isn't covered. With Medicare, which only covers about 80% of expenses, if your income is under $25,000 you may be able to get coverage from free assistance programs, but if it's over that you have to pay for coverage of which there are two types.

Medigap, which takes over where Medicare stops, is very expensive. Medicare Advantage, which takes the place of Medicare, even though you still have to pay your monthly Medicare premium, limits you to doctors within their network. This is what I have. Fortunately my primary care physician and my ENT doctor are in most networks, but in some specialties the choices are very limited. For example, a few years ago I had to pay out-of-pocket to my very expensive ophthalmologist for cataract surgery although the hospital out patient care of which he is part owner was covered. Two years ago I found another ophthalmologist who was covered, but she was dropped from the network last year. Soon I will have to choose one that is in the network.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Greg » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:47 pm

Big Magilla wrote:We don't need Medicare for All. Why is that suddenly so important? I'm on Medicare and I have never had so many problems with insurance company screw-ups too numerous to list and ridiculously high drug prices with the donut hole in the middle of the year in which you have to pay even higher prices until the hole is filled with your money, adding insult to injury. With more people in the program it can only get worse. What we need is a system where you go to the doctor, get treated and not have to pay anything outside of your monthly premium. That's not Medicare for anyone, let alone all.


Were you ever covered in the Veterans Administration? What I think would work best would be a VA For All where the VA system is expanded to cover the entire nation.
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:54 pm

I have no idea whether CNN is excited about Joe Kennedy or not and I don't care. He may appeal to the older generations who see him as the hope that was lost with the assassination of his great-uncle, but younger generations should see him, or someone like him, as someone who can get things done. If there is someone else out there who is smarter with ideas and that appeal to all generations and the charisma to put them across, then fine. What I'm seeing with all the other anticipated 2020 Democratic candidates that are being talked about are people I'd vote for because the alternative would be an extension of the Trump era, but I don't see any of them with broad appeal.

We don't need Medicare for All. Why is that suddenly so important? I'm on Medicare and I have never had so many problems with insurance company screw-ups too numerous to list and ridiculously high drug prices with the donut hole in the middle of the year in which you have to pay even higher prices until the hole is filled with your money, adding insult to injury. With more people in the program it can only get worse. What we need is a system where you go to the doctor, get treated and not have to pay anything outside of your monthly premium. That's not Medicare for anyone, let alone all.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Sabin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:57 pm

Big Magilla wrote
She's old news - Joe Kennedy is the new Ma. liberal.

She’s still in her first term! And it’s even harder to make that claim if she’s for Medicare for All and he’s not.

Besides, it only makes the Democratic Party look oligarchical (the Democratic Leisure Council, as Jesse Jackson put it) if we nominate the spouses or offspring or offspring of offspring of previous Presidents. Maybe CNN is excited, but trust me. NOBODY my age or younger gives a shit about nominating a Kennedy.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:55 pm

Sabin wrote:I would love to see some new blood, but I have to ask and I'm being serious: does Elizabeth Warren qualify? She would be younger blood for sure. She will be seventy when/if she starts running in 2019, which would make her the oldest incoming President in our history. Would she be disqualified from your calls for young blood as well?


She's old news - Joe Kennedy is the new Ma. liberal. I'm not familiar with his views on Medicare for All, but that's not the panacea people seemto think it is. I would imagine that as a Kennedy he has some ideas on the subject that may be better.

I like the fact that the worst the Republicans can say about him is that he's boring. He's not, they are when they're not being liars and cheats, but what else is new?

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Sabin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:52 pm

Big Magilla wrote
Look out for Joe Kennedy, RFK's 37-year-old grandson, the fiery young Congressman from Massachusetts, who will give the Democrats' rebuttal to Trump's State of the Union address next week. This could give him the national exposure he needs to blow the competition out of the water.

Already I'm seeing people gripe that he's not for Medicare For All on my feed. I think that's going to be pretty essential for any contender. Also, call me crazy, but for a party that sees its best contenders in a couple of old white men, I don't see nominating a Kennedy as moving forward.

OscarGuy wrote
I think something people have refused to bring up about Sanders is how, during the campaign for the Dem nomination, he promised that he would remain a Democrat. What has he done? He's steadfastly refused to change party affiliations. He's as much a liar and a cheat as anyone who saw through him and his large number of loud and sexist followers early in the campaign. He claims to be pure and for the little people, but he's as calculating and dishonest as every other politician out there.

It's time for new blood. Younger blood. Whether that's in the guise of the other problematic candidates in the race, Cory Booker or Kamala Harris, or someone else.

I'll just respond to the other Bernie comments here...

Is there any Democrat that has campaigned for more Democratic candidates up for election or reelection than Bernie Sanders? Or done more town halls or interviews in support of Democratic policy? Is your problem with Bernie Sanders REALLY that he didn't change his party affiliation or that he's Bernie Sanders? If Bernie Sanders is a liar and a cheat, we should have more liars and cheats like him.

I would love to see some new blood, but I have to ask and I'm being serious: does Elizabeth Warren qualify? She would be younger blood for sure. She will be seventy when/if she starts running in 2019, which would make her the oldest incoming President in our history. Would she be disqualified from your calls for young blood as well?
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver


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