Everything Is Great and Amazing

Big Magilla
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:22 am

All the coverage of this jackass is obscuring a truly horrible bit of news that has gotten scant attention in the last few days.

Russia allegedly vetoed Trump's selection of Romney for Secretary of State, delighted that he made a last minute switch to Russia's favorite oil guy, Tillerson. Both Trump and Tillerson have failed to impose the sanctions demanded by Congress. That's high treason if it can be proven and all that is needed to prove Trump was a witting tool of a foreign country.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watc ... associated
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Okri » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:44 pm

Not gonna lie, couldn't even finish the Tur interview without wanting to reach through my monitor and <insert random violent act here>. She should be canonized for that.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby flipp525 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:43 pm

Okri wrote:I'd like to congratulate Katy Tur on that. Holy fucking shit.

Did you see his insane interview on Ari Melber’s “The Beat” at 6pm? It was incredible.
Last edited by flipp525 on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Okri » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:40 pm

I'd like to congratulate Katy Tur on that. Holy fucking shit.

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Sabin » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:51 pm

This past week, one of the survivors of the school shootings suggested on Twitter that, "We should change the names of AR-15s to “Marco Rubio” because they are so easy to buy."

Marco Rubio got his ass handed to him from both sides of the aisle this week. Because the knock on Rubio is that he was assembled in a lab, there was something cathartic about watching that room go after him. But on a broader scale, it is just nuts to me that a guy like Marco Rubio doesn't have a party anymore. People on the right don't trust him because he's willing to compromise. And nothing short of a complete disavowal of NRA money would have been satisfactory in that town hall. But more so, I think people on the left don't trust him because he's a Latino in a party of racists.

I don't know what inspired him to get out there but it didn't work at all. It was a terrible mistake that likely made him wish for the simpler days of being called "Little Marco" by the guy that he now has to go out there and defend.
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Sabin » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:27 pm

criddic3 wrote
I don't think we can blame the NRA or the GOP directly for the kinds of events we've seen in recent times. They simply want to uphold a Constitutional principle, though I agree they should be a bit more flexible about things like requiring IDs and background checks to purchase guns.

It’s the money, Lebowski.
"If you are marching with white nationalists, you are by definition not a very nice person. If Malala Yousafzai had taken part in that rally, you'd have to say 'Okay, I guess Malala sucks now.'" ~ John Oliver

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby criddic3 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:21 pm

Big Magilla wrote:
criddic3 wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:I hadn't thought about the NRA being brought up on RICO charges, but that would be icing on the cake. The end of the NRA and the GOP as we know them at the same time. One couldn't hope for a better outcome.


Be careful what you wish for. Too much power on one side of the ideological scale is not necessarily a good thing.

Note I didn't say the end of the NRA and GOP altogether - I said as we know them.


Ah but what incarnation will they morph into? Back to the "saner" version of the mid-80s, to the ineffectual GOP of the 1940s, or perhaps the early abolitionists of the 1850s? Or some newfangled party that acts more like a slightly more right-leaning Libertarian Party? There are many possibilities but few are realistic. I don't think we can blame the NRA or the GOP directly for the kinds of events we've seen in recent times. They simply want to uphold a Constitutional principle, though I agree they should be a bit more flexible about things like requiring IDs and background checks to purchase guns. They should all make a deal with Democrats, and say "We'll give you stricter gun laws in exchange for voter ID laws, as long as the IDs are free and accessible." :D
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby The Original BJ » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:30 am

criddic3 wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:I hadn't thought about the NRA being brought up on RICO charges, but that would be icing on the cake. The end of the NRA and the GOP as we know them at the same time. One couldn't hope for a better outcome.


Be careful what you wish for. Too much power on one side of the ideological scale is not necessarily a good thing.


What kind of balance should we strike between the folks who want to squash open racism and fascism, end the senseless scourge of gun violence, provide healthcare to all, and encourage fair and democratic elections...and the people who don’t want any of those things?

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:28 am

criddic3 wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:I hadn't thought about the NRA being brought up on RICO charges, but that would be icing on the cake. The end of the NRA and the GOP as we know them at the same time. One couldn't hope for a better outcome.


Be careful what you wish for. Too much power on one side of the ideological scale is not necessarily a good thing.

Note I didn't say the end of the NRA and GOP altogether - I said as we know them.
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” - Voltaire

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby criddic3 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:18 pm

Big Magilla wrote:I hadn't thought about the NRA being brought up on RICO charges, but that would be icing on the cake. The end of the NRA and the GOP as we know them at the same time. One couldn't hope for a better outcome.


Be careful what you wish for. Too much power on one side of the ideological scale is not necessarily a good thing.
"If you can't stand the nut on the left and you can't stand the nut on the right, go for the Johnson,” Jonathan S. Bush (10/21/2016)

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:13 pm

I hadn't thought about the NRA being brought up on RICO charges, but that would be icing on the cake. The end of the NRA and the GOP as we know them at the same time. One couldn't hope for a better outcome.
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” - Voltaire

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Mister Tee » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:45 pm

So...how was Infrastructure Week for everybody else?

It feels like this week was a major step along the way of getting out of this mess. Mueller's indictments seemed to me elegantly presented: centered all around Russians -- because who in Trump's orbit could dare object to that? -- and offering soothing (if meaningless) words like "unwitting" about Trump and company, so they couldn't make any witch-hunt claim. But at the same time they made clear the election was interfered with, that the interference was demonstrably pro-Trump and anti-Hillary (with a touch of pro-Bernie/Stein when it helped torpedo Hillary), and offering the clear possibility of much more to come. "The Russians interfered" is established narrative now, and should make it impossible for Trump to scuttle the investigation, or for his GOP enablers to help along those lines, without serious repercussions from the electorate.

An electorate that is already loaded for bear, as evidenced by continuing results from special elections (one in Florida most recently -- I think it was this week, but life moves so fast I can't truly recall), and will only be emboldened by the fierce reaction of those Parkland students. It's been easy, in recent times, to submit to hopelessness over these gun massacres -- "if killing those kids at Sandy Hook didn't make a difference, what could?" is a sentence I presume we've all heard a thousand times. But we didn't allow for the fact that the surviving Sandy Hook students were too young to speak for themselves, and thus couldn't offer the impact of furious personal testimony. These students are clearly beyond-determined, and, from what I've heard, sufficiently educated to hold their own in argument. I'm uncharacteristically optimistic of their making a difference.

Particularly if the steady reports turn out true, and Mueller is truly investigating the NRA for funneling Russian money into GOP campaigns in 2016. The amount of money the NRA pumped in that year -- over 6 times what it had given just 6-8 years earlier -- makes it a serious question. If this were found to be true, the NRA could be done up on RICO charges, and stripped of its assets. Can you imagine the damage losing such cash flow would do to the Republican prospects in November, over and above what else is going on?

All of which is why I think we may one day look back at this week and see it as a decisive moment in our climb-back from the nightmare we've been living.


'

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Big Magilla » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:15 pm

Of course this is the Fox headline:

"There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election.”
- Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein
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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby Mister Tee » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:56 pm

For those who've been wondering if Bob Mueller was actually going to come up with anything...I'd say it's on.

It was fascinating watching Rosenstein's press conference announcing the indictments. He kept answering all questions -- e.g., "does this mean no Trump people wittingly cooperated?" -- with some version of "in these indictments..." I kept hearing Saoirse Ronan's voice -- "That we KNOW of"

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Re: Everything Is Great and Amazing

Postby criddic3 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:38 pm

Sabin wrote:Actually, I misspoke. criddic3, I want you to hear me out...

You say:
criddic3 wrote
There are still plenty of Republicans, both in office and in the rank & file, who are vocally opposed to President Trump. Fighting from within is the only good option short of splitting the party in two.


1) Who cares about splitting the party in two when both sides are going down with the ship? You're losing states in the reddest states in the union. You're on the Titanic. Who cares about preserving the hull or whatever?

2) Unless tragedy befalls him, the only people who can do anything about President Trump is the Republican Party. Fifty years from now, what chapter would you rather read? "Under President Trump, Republicans suffered large defeats in both houses..." or "In an unprecedented move, the Republican party stood up to President Trump and moved to impeach him, costing them a base of support, but they were able to regroup under President Pence and rally behind him in his bid for reelection?" What would make you proud?

3) I want to go back to "splitting the party in two." I understand why in some ways that's bad for your party. But every day you keep this ship afloat, more Holocaust deniers and race-baiters jump aboard. This is only happening with the Republican party. More and more white supremacists look at the Republican party and like what it has to offer them. I want to underline that last sentence because whatever words that your elected Republicans are saying against Trump's message isn't being heard by the the worst people our country has to offer. In your heart, do you honestly think once Trump is out, the party will go back to the simpler, more moderate days of...The Tea Party? The neo-cons?

I want you to ask yourself something: who will run for office in your party after all the Holocaust deniers have their shot? What comes next?

4) Finally, on a personal note, I'm a Jew. My grandmother is a Holocaust survivor. Do you think there's a chance I would remain in the Democratic Party if half of them supported an anti-Semitic candidate? If a third of them did? Or if they stood behind a Holocaust denier? We all have a line we cannot cross with the rank and file. Where's yours, dude? When do you say "This party isn't for me anymore"?


That's a lot to unravel. Should I take them one by one or simply react to your overall comment?

I am particularly appalled by the lack of outrage in the party that people like Arthur Jones of Illinois and Kris Kobach of Kansas are running. Jones is part of an unsettling trend of Holocaust deniers and race-baiters, as you mentioned, that are running unopposed in their districts. Kobach is a hardliner on immigration in a way that will eventually lose the party more support than it gains. He is running for Governor, though he could lose the primary to the incumbent, former Lt. Governor Jeff Colyer. Even if my paternal father's family hadn't been Jewish and my stepfather didn't come from a mixed Jewish/Catholic family, I'd be disturbed by this. Republicans were traditionally against discrimination and was founded by abolitionists in the 1850s. That legacy has been eroding for some time now, but I never thought I'd see such a lack of any kind of real reaction to what is going on now.

Having Trump removed from office or seeing Trump soundly rejected in the midterms? Why not both?? If Republicans lose both houses of Congress (not in any way guaranteed), Trump could very well be impeached/convicted and Pence would start out as a lame-duck heading towards a dicey 2020 election.

In that scenario I really don't know what happens to the party. The same voters who liked Trump will be there. Either they will be so angered by Trump's removal that they vote for a similar candidate in 2020 or they become so embarrassed by his failure that they stay home. If they stay home and we get a worthwhile candidate, will that be enough in the general? And if it is, what would that mean for the image of the party? Does the Trump experiment become a wound that heals over time or is there a larger problem that can't be fixed overnight??
"If you can't stand the nut on the left and you can't stand the nut on the right, go for the Johnson,” Jonathan S. Bush (10/21/2016)


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